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Hawkeye

Tohsaka and Edelfelt: The Eternal Rivalry

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This topic came up in the Questions thread, so I figured I'd put forward my view on it. I'm sure this is already something commonly known/considered around here, so if you're already familiar with the relationship between the Tohsaka and Edelfelt families, feel free to skip over this. If not, here goes nothing.

Right, starting off, people following current Type-Moon works are likely familiar with Rin Tohsaka and Luvia Edelfelt and their perpetual rivalry that involves a lot more pro-wrestling and physical bouts than one would probably expect of a Magus Fight.

But, the Tohsaka history with this family goes farther back, and is likely a lot closer than some Prisma fans would know at any rate.

During the Third Fuyuki Holy Grail War, one of the competitors were the Edelfelt family. In particular, two sisters whose Sorcery Trait, called Ores Scales according to the translation I have, allowed the two to share the Edelfelt magic crest, and also meant that when they summoned the Sabre of that war, they actually got two servants, each being a separate aspect of the hero they had intended to summon.

Now they apparently worked together for a time before splitting into two camps for whatever reason. Despite what we're told about the Sabre class' ability to consistantly make the finals of each war, it seems that the Edelfelt were eliminated quite early, so it's possible that one of them lost their servant to someone else or a similar outcome.

Anyway, this is where my data (As opposed to what I know to be the general knowledge of this pair) gets kinda hazy.

One Source says one went missing and the other died, or that one went missing and the other returned home with a grudge against the Japanese. I'm not sure what's correct here. Either way, the consistant part is that one went missing, and regardless of the other's fate, the Edelfelt line continued all the same with Luvia eventually becoming their heir.

As for the one that went missing. Basically there's two possiblities, both involve running across the Tohsaka. Either she was taken out and parts of her Magic Crest were somehow harvested by the Tohsaka (I've no idea how one would do that given the genetic coding required to be compatible with a Magic Crest.) The other, much more likely outcome, is that said sister married into the Tohsaka, her descendants then being able to adopt a singular crest from both the Tohsaka and Edelfelt.

The evidence for this is quite compelling all things considered.

First and foremost, Rin herself makes use of Gandr, a Scandinavian curse, which if not sharing heritage with the Finnish Edelfelt, a Japanese Magus would really have no logical reason to use, her other spellls and magecraft being inherited from her ancestor's teacher, Kischur Zelretch Schweinorg. Not only that, Rin's Gandr is notably potent, and the Edelfelt are considered some of the most prominant users of this move.

The second piece of evidence is that Rin's father, Tokiomi, is noted to have had a foreign mother. Tokiomi, who himself appears to be in his 30s at least at the start of the Fourth War, it's entirely possible that his mother was the missing Edelfelt sister from the Third War 60 years before.

Finally, while decidedly not as concrete as the other evidence, in Avenger's Time Loop, the ones playing the roles of the Edelfelt sisters are in fact Rin and Sakura. Giiven that other factors were recreated rather haphazardly (The Third War's Assassin and its master being duplicated without incident) this could simply be allocating the role to the only sisters to participate in the Fifth War, but it's also possible that their heritage played a part in giving them these personas.

Anyway, like I said before, this isn't anything new or ground breaking, but since people were asking, figured I'd put it out there for people to look over.

Comments

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  1. mAc Chaos's Avatar
    is this like a chrono trigger team combo
  2. Mcjon01's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    Okay, there's a wrench in my works here, there are puppets who can use Gandr? Like literally referred to as Gandr? ... That's weird.
    Spoiler:
  3. Hawkeye's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01
    Spoiler:
    Always struck me as odd that Touko made a puppet in the form of the sister she hates.
  4. You's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    Half the time I don't even know there's a question to ask. As I believe we've firmly established, my comprehensive knowledge appears to be level with Jon Snow.

    Besides, the questions thread gets pulled off into tangents so much, I actually think being wrong in a blog post attracts an answer much faster at this point. XD
    It attracts more hate for sure.
    Not sure if it attracts a faster answer. Since the only people who look at blogs are those who use the activity stream or blog heavily.
    Zidan being one of the most prolific bloggers to my knowledge.
    Updated June 3rd, 2015 at 07:45 PM by You
  5. Spinach's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    Always struck me as odd that Touko made a puppet in the form of the sister she hates.
    Make a puppet of the person you hate more than anyone else. Abuse the hell out of it to relieve any pent up stress.
  6. Mcjon01's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    Always struck me as odd that Touko made a puppet in the form of the sister she hates.
    Well the entire point of those puppets is to mock Aoko.
  7. Hawkeye's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by You
    I attracts more hate for sure.
    Not sure if it attracts a faster answer. Since the only people who look at blogs are those who use the activity stream or blog heavily.
    Zidan being one of the most prolific bloggers to my knowledge.
    It was never my goal to attract hate, but I can only work with what I think I know. I mean who does anything thinking they're wrong about it?

    I haven't read the Lord El Melloi II files yet, so it's not like I could draw from that, I wasn't even aware it was referenced there.

    Though it rather seems that Zidan could have chosen to ignore me if he felt that strongly about it. Until he posted I had no idea he even existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach
    Make a puppet of the person you hate more than anyone else. Abuse the hell out of it to relieve any pent up stress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01
    Well the entire point of those puppets is to mock Aoko.
    Makes sense in an insane, passive aggressive way I guess. Explains why it looks so beat up compared to her other creations.
    Updated June 3rd, 2015 at 07:45 PM by Hawkeye
  8. mAc Chaos's Avatar
    It's basically just the puppet version of having a picture of someone you hate on a dartboard at your office.
  9. Haseo Nanaya's Avatar
    I remember some time ago I made an effort post about this and concluded that Grandad Tohsaka made it to the finals and fought the older sister.
  10. ZidanReign's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Seika
    Zidan, mentioning your ignore list as a way to bludgeon someone is precisely the opposite of what it was meant for, which is to let you get along more smoothly on the boards. Stop it.

    Hawkeye, aside from it being unacceptable to dismiss a user as never being able to do anything constructive, doing it when they're banned and can't react to or report it is particularly out of line.

    Both of you consider this a formal private warning (delivered in public).
    Whoops.

    To be fair, I really did ignore list him right after that post so I'm no coward.

    The content of his blog posts can be re-directed to the Q+A Thread, and yet I keep seeing it here.
    Updated June 3rd, 2015 at 10:40 PM by ZidanReign
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