Mike1984
Yet more bad moderation.
by , August 23rd, 2012 at 07:22 PM (10989 Views)
OK, so, people are asking what happened with my ban, so I thought I'd explain it before DP can come up with a bunch of excuses.
Basically, I got banned because Elf was in a pissy with her job, DP can't communicate to save his fucking life and Altima, well, I dunno, maybe he decided he'd help me out in an argument for once, by proving me right when I said something that, at the time, was probably actually wrong. Nothing else makes sense, certainly, because there's no fucking way in hell what I said deserved a straight ban, without so much as a warning (either now or in the past).
I accept that what I said was, at the time, not really fair, at least towards DP and mods in general. He was actually debating quite reasonably, and explaining his reasoning pretty well, hence why I actually gave up the argument. Me calling DP fascist was, at the time, unwarrented, as was calling the mod team the SS.
The reasoning they gave me for the ban was a combination of the fact that I'd called them fascist before, and the fact that I continued for several posts. However, they at no point made any attempt to stop me doing this. I have had no kind of warnings, and nothing more than a friendly "please don't call me that" from DP, in a totally non-moderator way. What possible justification can they have for saying "well, we're sick of it" when they had previously done absolutely nothing about it. Further, in the thread itself, he made absolutely no effort to calm me down (his excuse for that is "well, I expected you'd just tell me to stuff it", but that doesn't excuse not trying), and indeed continued with the argument as if nothing had happened.
Additionally, not only was IRUN's post pretty much flamebait, but the subsequent actions of the mods (joking about it and messing around) indicated that they really did not care, not to mention them obviously trolling me when I was clearly in a pissed-off mood. If they don't care, then why the fuck was I banned? Of course, they're going to do precisely fuck all about this, because they're continuing along the theme of "protect our moderation team no matter what, and fuck everyone else". I get a fucking ban for getting angry, IRUN gets nothing for repeatedly goading me in the thread and for making a flamebait comment in the first damn place.
What they did was, perhaps, just about acceptable behaviour for a normal forumite, but mods are supposed to act to resolve problems, not to create them, and when an issue erupts they have to act as a mod and actually deal with it in a logical, sensible manner. If we can't add them to the ignore list (and, I do understand DP's reasoning for although, really, it only works if they make at least some effort to actually defuse arguments in threads, rather than adding more fuel to the fire...), then they should bloody well be expected to not make us want to add them. And, it's not just me, either, I've seen mods goading Lyco when he was in a bad mood before.
Further, as to the "insult" itself, fascism is a genuine political philosophy, that people do hold. OK, so it's almost certainly a hyperbola to accuse any of the mods on this forum of holding such a philosophy, but such people do exist. If they show up, what am I meant to call them? Not to mention that I'm pretty damn sure I've been called an "anarchist" by multiple people (and probably a communist, too), which is something that is generally seen as just as insulting as being called a fascist would be. I don't mind, because I don't see anarchy as a bad thing, in principle at least (I accept it probably can't work in practice), but that doesn't mean that the people calling me it feel the same way. Calling someone a "fascist" or a "tyrant" is not as simple as shouting an insult at them, it is expressing a genuine opinion, and it certainly does not deserve a straight-out ban with absolutely no warning.
And, even ignoring the fact that the actual offense was nowhere near deserving of a straight ban, given that I'd had no prior warnings in the same area, no recent warnings at all and was provoked by IRUN, the way you handled actually making the decision was utterly disgraceful.
I mean, what sort of justice system gives the "victim" the right to not only put their story across but to actually make the decision, whilst the accused doesn't even realised they're being tried until the sentence has been passed? Well, I can think of a few, but you'd probably see it as an "insult" if I mentioned them, even though I am simply stating a fact....
None of you made any effort whatsoever to talk to me about any of this, or to get my side of the story. DP, you talked about me not "respecting" the mods/admins as people, but if that had been the case, then I wouldn't have been friends with Altima or Elf. It is true that I don't respect moderators or admins as a group, but as people I treat you much like I would anyone else, aside from when you actually act as moderators/admins and start imposing your beliefs on me.
However, respect is something you earn. You don't get it by right just because you have a luminant cyan or green name, you get it because you actually deserve it. And, right now, I'm finding it hard to see why any of you admins really deserve much in the way of respect from me, although Elf and DP do at least deserve some credit for admitting that they were wrong, even if they've done precisely fuck all to rectify it.
RB, well, I don't talk to you much, so I can't really say that I respect you any more than I do some random guy I met on the street. That's not necessarily your fault, as such, but it's still the case. Further, I know that you generally do vote to ban me when the option comes up, at least in the cases where I have got banned, and I've yet to ever have any kind of attempt from you to communicate with me about it.
Elf, you do at least have an excuse for not talking to me due to your work (although, really, if you've got time to debate a ban in the admin forum, you should have time to send me a PM), but that doesn't change the fact that you voted for a ban that you admitted you shouldn't have supported, simply because your work was stressing you out. OK, you did apologise, which is at least something, but I don't exactly see you rushing to rescind the ban you admitted was unjust, or any of the other consequences of it (like the "cool-down period").
OK, I accept that you made a mistake, and you apologised for that, but I don't see you attempting to make up for it (just like you never made up for any of the previous times you screwed me over), and, further, I don't see any indication that I can trust you any more in the future.
DP, on the other hand, you have no such excuse. You made a conscious decision not to talk to me because you thought I would just shout at you, and you also refrained from trying to stop me in the thread itself for the same reason. You may well have been right in that respect, but that doesn't excuse you not at least trying to talk to me, particularly since you said that an apology would have been sufficient to avoid a ban. I had no indication there was any urgency here, and no indication that there was any serious problem at all. I (quite reasonably) assumed you were brushing it off like you always have before, since no-one said anything to me at all.
Again, I accept that you apologised and respect you for that but, then, you apologised last time too, and you still did the exact same thing this time around. So, what reason do I have for believing it'll be any different if another issue like this arises? It's a shame, because you were actually being quite reasonable in that thread, prior to my explosion. You just seem to have forgotten that one of the duties of an admin is to actually deal with issues like that as they happen, by talking to people. Handing out bans once everything is calmed down with no accountability and no discussion (with me, anyway) does not resolve anything.
Et tu Altima.
Well, what can I say here? Apart from voting for the entirely unjust ban, which I guess is just a matter of your personal philosophy and natural tendancies towards authoritarianism, you made absolutely no effort to communicate with me whatsoever, aside from talking to me during the incident, whilst I was still in a bad mood, you gave me no indication that a ban was even being discussed, you outright threatened me with a permaban if I did anything like this again (which is worse than even DP seems to want) and, then, you have the gall to claim you're actually trying to help me. If this is your idea of "help", then I'd hate to see what you think a backstab is.
I think I should recommend you to Leo for the next Diplomacy game, because your ability to backstab someone whilst still claiming to be their friend is outstanding. Hell, all of you seem pretty damn good at talking and apologising without showing any indication of actually doing anything about it.
You claim I've "not changed", but that is quite simply not true. I do explode less than I used to, and I am trying to avoid it, even if I do fail some times. The very fact that I've not had any significant trouble for several months (despite a hell of a lot of provocation and absolutely zero help from you or DP in dealing with it) proves that. Unfortunately, you apparently expect me to be perfect, and every time I make a mistake you say "well, you've not changed". Because, of course, you don't notice all the times I don't respond to provocation, or respond in a relatively reserved manner like I did to all of MoB's provocation in the banner thread. Further, your attitude towards me (and that of the mods in general) makes it a hell of a lot harder.
The problem here is that you say we need to communicate more, but who with? DP and Elf, you say you're sorry but, aside from the fact that Elf is essentially never around when I am, I don't see how I can really trust you. You apologise, but is it really sincere, or are you just saying whatever you think will calm me down and make me not hate you? For me to actually believe it, I need to see evidence, especially since this has happened before, and you made much the same statement then as you have now. And, Altima, I honestly don't think I can trust you ever again after this, not without a very big change in your attitude. You seem to genuinely think that it would be best to just get rid of me and be done with it.
I will try to communicate better, but it's a two-way thing, and it's hard to trust you lot when you've said the same thing many times before, and yet acted just the same as you always do this time around.
OK, so you apologised, but it's easy to say "sorry" when you're not the one who got inconvinienced by it. Saying "sorry" never seems to be enough for me (although, in this case, mainly because no-one even bothered to fucking ask), so I don't see why I should just keep accepting it from you. I need to actually be able to trust you, and it's damn hard to do that when you've shown no indication whatsoever of being trustworthy.
When I fuck up (which I do), I pay the penalty. When you lot fuck up, I still pay the penalty. You do whatever the fuck you like and treat me like some fucking machine with a random number generator set to explode at random intervals. You don't seem to care what the effect of your lack of communication or totally unjust ban is on me, all you care about is making an example of me and trying to stop me from stating my opinion in a way you don't like. You make promises and then don't keep them, you apologise and then do the exact same thing the next time around and you claim that you are trying to help me whilst stabbing me in the fucking back.
OK, I accept that I do make mistakes, and I probably did deserve a warning for that, but there is no way in hell it was justified to jump straight to a ban without any prior warning whatsoever. Yes, I know there was prior history of me doing it, but you said absolutely nothing. It seems to me that this was more a case of you getting pissed off and deciding to say "fuck you Mike" to deter me in the future than it was of you actually making a reasonable and fair decision based on the actual offense, or even past history and actions. If I'd done the same thing to a non-admin, there's no way in hell you'd have banned me outright. It's just pro-mod bias, yet again.
The thing is, I now can't actually have a sensible discussion with you, DP, since I know you are not capable of being reasonable if it gets out of hand, and because Altima outright threatened to perma-ban me if I get angry at you again. You apologise, but you don't actually do anything to back it up. At least two of you admitted the ban was unjust, and Altima said he was sorry for the "abruptness" of it, and yet it still occured regardless, because you couldn't be bothered to actually communicate with me before it happened. Instead, you decided to apologise afterwards, when I'd already been punished and when you'd demonstrated your intent, and pretend that that makes things all happy and OK.
It does not. It's better than you saying "fuck you" and just defending yourselves, but it doesn't magically mean I can trust you, especially given that you have made the exact same promises before.
What reason do I have to think you won't act the exact same way next time? I simply have no reason to trust your decisions any more, and certainly no reason to trust your decision-making process.
Before you say "oh, here we go again" and complain at me for posting this, I did consider not doing so, particularly since I no longer trust you to be remotely fair and just about dealing with things that you might possibly consider "insults", particularly in terms of my opinion of you as moderators. However, all that would do is leave me bitter and resentful. All this would come out anyway, just in an uncontrolled manner that would just cause more arguments. I can't just forget what you did, and I need you to know how I feel about it. If you decide to ban me for this, then so be it, because I can't just stand by and ignore your actions.
Plus, other people have the right to know what you've done. The way you've treated me here is an utter disgrace. As you put it last night, DP, I do not like being fucked over without any recourse, and this is the only recourse that I have. I am sick of paying the consequences for your mistakes and you getting away with it scot-free by virtue of being mods, and I'm really sick of Altima constantly lecturing me whilst providing me with absolutely zero real assistance.
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