668 - Neighbor of the Beast

As long as Romney supporters can actually get over the loss and him and the rest of the GOP work with Obama (as opposed to trying to block nearly everything he does)

I think this is a bit optimistic.

I agree with Kotonoha mainly because I'm rather cynical when it comes to the US government. With the current multiple crisis (what is the plural version of that word, crisi?) we probably need it more than ever, but I doubt it's going to happen.

With how close this race was, I feel like there is going to be bitterness and that's going to mean the status quo for the last few years is going to continue.

Originally Posted by Kotonoha

I think this is a bit optimistic.

I THINK YOUR FACE IS A BIT OPTIMISTIC

Originally Posted by Kotonoha

I think this is a bit optimistic.

I would hope that it's not. The GOP got a pretty strong message last night - that the minorities, the women, they're all here to stay - and they can no longer count on that safe, older, Christian majority to carry the day. The white "majority" in the US is dropping by about 2% every 30 years; Hispanics are bound to become the most populous minority within 10 years, and by the 2030s or so, the caucasian race will become a new minority, assuming current trends keep going. Even the battleground state they thought they had pretty confidently - Florida - has been hard-fought all night long, but it seems Obama's pulling ahead in that by a small but over-the-recount-limit margin.

Don't be surprised if you see a hispanic Republican candidate in 2016. Most likely Marco Rubio.

Originally Posted by Heroslayer

I agree with Kotonoha mainly because I'm rather cynical when it comes to the US government. With the current multiple crisis (what is the plural version of that word, crisi?) we probably need it more than ever, but I doubt it's going to happen.

With how close this race was, I feel like there is going to be bitterness and that's going to mean the status quo for the last few years is going to continue.

There was bound to be bitterness no matter what side won. This is because, over the last two years, basically nobody has been willing to work together, Republican OR Democrat, as well as the fact that it seems that in the last few years, the Republicans have shifted more and more to the right as a result of the demands of the Tea Party (who - my personal opinion - I feel have done probably more to hurt this country in the last 20 years than any other political "scandal.")

However, the basic facts remain that in the end, when the voters were given the choice, they rejected Romney's vision, and put Obama in for four more years - a sign that really, the GOP is rapidly falling out of touch with the reality that America is, instead of their idealized America that once was.

What I feel will happen is the Republicans will ultimately cast away the Tea Party. They have to. If they want to win, they need to be a lot more accepting of the things America is now - increasingly non-white, women and minorities who are enfranchised, and not everyone is rich and wealthy. This is bound to piss off the Tea Party folks to no end (I've already read several sites saying how we're all now socialists, for example), but if they really want a chance at the national game, they literally have no choice but to return to a more center-right position, because realistically, Obama is one of the most moderate Democrats in presidential history. Clinton was more liberal!

Oh, and it's "crises" by the way.

Republicans and Democrats have, for decades, not wanted to work together.
It isn't a trend that will end just because it is needed - it has to be wanted.
The fact that mocking and belittling and ridiculing is prevalent, on both sides, doesn't help the matter.

True. I do believe that the GOP is going to need to relook their own strategies since they lost again, but I wonder how well that is going to translate into Congress and legislature.

Not to mention Obama's side and how far is he going to push such an advantage.

Originally Posted by Lycodrake

Republicans and Democrats have, for decades, not wanted to work together.
It isn't a trend that will end just because it is needed - it has to be wanted.
The fact that mocking and belittling and ridiculing is prevalent, on both sides, doesn't help the matter.

Bill Clinton.

Absolute monarchy go go go

Originally Posted by Five_X

Absolute monarchy go go go

And Thus, The Union of Solar Energy and Free Nations was born from the ashes.

Gundams in 300 years do want do want do want

Originally Posted by Lycodrake

Republicans and Democrats have, for decades, not wanted to work together.
It isn't a trend that will end just because it is needed - it has to be wanted.
The fact that mocking and belittling and ridiculing is prevalent, on both sides, doesn't help the matter.

Not true. The TV casters were all talking about how the last Tax Reform bill was pushed through by Ronald Reagan, with the help of a Democrat-controlled house and senate.

They can work together; there just needs to be compromises on both sides, and the one big one Republicans did not want to budge on was raising taxes on the wealthy. 60% of Americans said we should do it, and the fact that Obama got re-elected shows that they didn't buy Mitt's platform of rolling things back.

I expect the Republicans will agree to that concession now as long as the Democrats agree to them in kind (and the Democrats have definitely indicated they're willing to negotiate on that.)

That said, both sides do need to sit down and work this thing out. I think the Tea Party forced the Republicans more to the right they wanted to be, which is part of how Mitt Romney became a "flip flopper" - he resonated the most with more moderate Republicans, but to win, he needed the support of those ultra-conservatives who would've voted for, say, Santorum or Gingrich. In the end, it ultimately failed, because Romney's attempts to reach everyone in the spectrum failed (note how as soon as he was mathematically guaranteed, he switched to being moderate and stuck there) due to the deep divisions in the party right now.

There's going to be a fair bit of change in the GOP between now and 2016 - a re-centering a bit more towards the center, and more openly embracing women, minorities, and even the less-affluent. Bet on it, because their political survival as a party depends on them adapting to this change - change which was clearly demonstrated to them as irreversible last night.

Originally Posted by Heroslayer

True. I do believe that the GOP is going to need to relook their own strategies since they lost again, but I wonder how well that is going to translate into Congress and legislature.

Not to mention Obama's side and how far is he going to push such an advantage.

Immediately? Nothing. The first changes we'll see will be come the next senator/representative elections in 2014. Until then, unfortunately, we're still likely stuck with at least two more years of petty partisan politics unless they set an example (especially Mitt, and honestly I do think he is capable of this) and they focus on working with Obama to come to an agreement on how this country needs to go.

To be dead honest, when Romney conceded last night, I felt he looked actually relieved. That was the first impression I got as I ignored the obvious forced words and plastic smile - I watched how his eyebrows arched and how his forehead wrinkled. Obviously the man did not want to lose, and even did not plan to lose - he wrote only a victory speech and not a concession one.

However, the fact of the matter is honestly, Mitt Romney is a moderate Republican at his core. He supports things that make the more right-wing elements of the Republicans unhappy, but if he got in, he would absolutely have had to cater to those sides which would demand those sorts of changes. His loss means he no longer has to cater to them for anything whatsoever.

But that's politics for you - if they get you in, they also own your ass, and you'd better play by their rules if you want four more. Obama actually had a much harder fight this time around compared to McCain, but he still got in, and it looks like he might even win the popular vote which would make this a rather complete victory. The Republicans, no doubt, are taking notes for the next time.

Also, this won't be the last time we see Paul Ryan, I'm sure of it. He's bound to be the political face of the conservative wing of the Republican Army for years to come.

Since he does not want to allow comments, that is his choice. However, nothing stops me from putting up one of my own.

So I shall do it in mine instead.

Doesn't that completely ruin the point of Lyco disabling comments on his blog?

More like disabling comments on your blog completely ruins the point of posting it on a forum in the first place.

Originally Posted by Satehi

Doesn't that completely ruin the point of Lyco disabling comments on his blog?

He chose to disable them in his blog; he has no control over whether or not I can reply to them in mine.

(Though I did accidentally post a reply in his because I missed that bit about him not wanting that; it's why I started up one on mine instead.)

This really was an election where it didn't matter who won. Dems took the Senate, Republicans took the House, there would/will be a deadlock on literally everything that comes through. And besides that both sides are more centrist than they appear during the election. It was gonna be status quo no matter what.

mocking, belittling

So, so tired of Lyco using these words. Come on, man, people can tell you you're wrong without it being a personal vendetta.

But he's not wrong. Republicans and Democrats in the house and senate constantly do things like that.

Originally Posted by KENTA

But he's not wrong. Republicans and Democrats in the house and senate constantly do things like that.

And the people are heartily sick of it.

The Republicans banked on portraying it as being Obama's fault, but the votes threw that strategy away - assuming Florida flips for Obama (97% counted, he's leading by about 50,000 votes), it'll give him 332-206, and he's already won the popular vote by about three million. It's a total victory, albeit not an extremely dominant one.

Therefore, the Republicans are the ones who now are going to be forced to compromise - the American people sided with the Democrats. It wasn't an overwhelming rejection of Romney, but it was still certainly decisive, as only two states flipped in the entire campaign (North Carolina and Indiana, both to Romney) - neither of them battlegrounds, and even the NC race was surprisingly close; about as close as the Ohio one as it turns out. All the battleground states went Obama's way (unless Florida somehow flips, which I doubt, and even if it did, Obama still has more than enough to have won).

You underestimate politicians. Nobody is gonna budge.

Originally Posted by KENTA

You underestimate politicians. Nobody is gonna budge.

And eventually, the ones perceived as not budging get voted out.

They are ultimately accountable to the people. They have to convince them to keep sending them back. If the people feel they're not worth sending back, they don't go back.

The way they stay in office is really to pay attention to sentiments at home, and align themselves with that, since they are, after all, supposed to be representative of the wishes of the people in that district/state.

Originally Posted by KENTA

You underestimate politicians. Nobody is gonna budge.

It's more complicated than that, though. There are enough European nations where the votes tend not to give one party a majority and coalitions are the norm. Germany is the classic example of this being both consistent and functional. Politicians don't need to be uncompromising arseholes, you've just ended up with a lot of them for various reasons.