The Sound You Don't Quite Hear In The Dead Of Night

Hm. 'Complaining about silly things' - is, I think, an undeserved tag. Believe me, these sorts of problems do influence all of us. (And I think/hope that this way of introducing yourself to us will help alleviate one of them, and get you engaged. I always like to have new, thoughtful, members).

Now, if I might add my thoughts on some of them (I'm guessing they're mainly examples, but maybe not).

6th Grail War: First, let me make the point that stories which take an interesting concept and run with it in spite of canon can be good too, and I'm generally happy to read them. That said, I admit I have bad reactions to this, and partly because it is in contravention of canon. Perhaps that's not the root of the problem, though. Instead, I often get the feeling that writers of Sixth War 'fics haven't put a lot of thought into it. I imagine that if they'd considered precisely what they were trying to accomplish, they could imagine another way to explore their ideas without screwing up the canon timeline. "Here's a sequel" actually starts feeling very lazy to me, particularly when the authors have failed to develop the intervening time properly. At worst, they could come up with an interesting explanation that would be consistently used and affect the plot logically (see: Hollow Ataraxia). As opposed to just forgetting the end of F/SN, which grates on me.

Another problem does concern 'originality'. Aside from Hollow Ataraxia's treatment, if I go to ff.net I can find a good twenty of these 'fics, very few of which were any good, and mainly written by people who haven't bothered to research the universe beforehand. A deliberate contravention of canon can be interesting. Dozens of ignorant mistakes are just irritating. So chalk it up to prior experience, in part. (Plus every "here's the Fifth War, but ten years on, and it'll be better now, honest" fanfic is another fanfic that isn't exploring the awesome possibilities suggested by the canon timeline - a massive battle going down as Waver tries to dismantle the Greater Grail once and for all. And I would love to see that).

And, all that said, I still read Verg's Somnium Summer Redux, which is very Sixth War in its feel. Simply because it's very well written. Almost everything can be excused for that.


Sakura: I think that generally even the very strident Sakura fans on this forum just want someone to write her in accordance with her personality, which lots of people have failed to do in the past. (And, given that getting characters' personality right is one of the things any fanfic writer should be considering carefully, I don't see why this should particularly bother anyone - I'm happy to support them to this extent). As long as you develop her correctly and treat the character thoughtfully ('thoughtfully' is not necessarily 'well', let me point out), you should be OK. That said, in my opinion, Mike does have a tendency to criticise when Sakura doesn't get a sizeable amount of room in the plot (as opposed to what's necessarily fitting for the 'fic). And it seems that he almost always reacts badly to Sakura being killed. Possibly you could develop your plot well enough that he'd accept it, but it must be admitted that's a difficult job. If you were to plan on such a thing, it's best to warn him so that he knows he won't enjoy your 'fic. I think that's enough to avoid big arguments, and it's something other authors have done previously. Otherwise, well, he's one person. If you think his complaints are unreasonable, then ignore them. (Conversely, if you reckon he has a point, do something about it).


Servants: 1300 posts is mostly discussion. A large part of the remaining posts are silly or plain bad. Believe me when I say that there's plenty of things left to be thought of/developed properly. As long as you can honestly say that you haven't deliberately plagiarised anyone, don't worry about it. And if you've really got an concept stuck in your head, you can ask the originator of the idea. This is the internet - lots of people will be happy to let you borrow their creation if you credit them properly.


At the end of it all, let me re-iterate the most important point I think I made there: anything can be excused if it's well written. Consider your plot, your characters and your themes carefully - then you can do almost anything you like, and it'll still get read.

Honestly, fanfiction at the end of the day really, is about you having fun, being able to express your ideas and creativity. Neither I nor Mike can really intrude upon that. To be quite honest, almost nothing on this forum is routinely shot down, and even if Mike hollers, you'll likely get rousing praise and support for making an attempt. Don't be afraid of him or anyone else coming after you for that, I or one of the mods will take care of that if we see him being unreasonable. If you see that, tell us. That said, he isn't always as angry as he seems to be.

But if you really want to take off and be taken seriously, then take it seriously. As I said, most people will welcome whatever idea you have, and I myself have read many a fic where we'd have dystopian tragedy happen to everyone and I still liked it(even if, imho people are hamming up tragedy like a fetish film in the majority of fics nowadays, instead of working on getting the characters right in the particular environment they are set in).

In my mind there is a clear difference between writing a story and exploring an idea. 80%-90% of the fics on here are exploring ideas (including mine, in a sense) so they focus more on the idea they present than the characters therein. While this is good for one shots, it makes for very cookie cutter stories that don't really go anywhere. In short, the character end up as pretty much chess pieces to get to a certain point, rather than as characters experiencing whatever scenario is thrust on them. So the character development seems forced into a "Because the Plot Says So" framework.

You'll get mixed reviews when you post stuff anywhere, and BL is no different. Don't be afraid of that. Take what people say here with a grain of salt, but if you have an idea you want to tell, go ahead and tell it. I will give you a dressing down only if I see something wrong with your fic, not really about Sakura. I don't really have any ire to give you if you don't deserve it. Very few actually do.

Also, if there is any real intimidation it's probably because you've lurked GD too long. That is pretty much Nerd Rage Central, though it can be oppressive to newbies. But the good thing is picking up nuggets of info.

Originally Posted by Seika

(Plus every "here's the Fifth War, but ten years on, and it'll be better now, honest" fanfic is another fanfic that isn't exploring the awesome possibilities suggested by the canon timeline - a massive battle going down as Waver tries to dismantle the Greater Grail once and for all. And I would love to see that).

This is what I've been working on, though I'm interpreting the phrase that was something like "a battle on par with the Holy Grail War" to having it straight-up happen during the 6th.

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

I don't really have any ire to give you if you don't deserve it. Very few actually do.

That's good to hear.

As far as Sakura goes, if you try to portray her reasonably (i.e. don't treat her as a villain or someone entirely unsympathetic), then the worst you'll get from me is some constructive criticism about how you're not quite getting her right, and an offer to help if you want it. I do appreciate people making an effort, and if someone does then I will gladly help them improve.

What irritates me is when people ignore her or kill her off gratuitously. I can accept that characters do die sometimes, but it happens to Sakura far more often than the other main characters, and she rarely comes out of it with much credit, either (unlike the others, who usually at least die awesomely). Basically, it's mostly what Seika said. If Sakura is written in a way which fits with her true nature, I'm far less likely to complain than if the author obviously sees her as evil or entirely unsympathetic, or if they are using her as a villainous character without an extremely good justification.

As for sixth war fics, I think that the problem with a lot of them is that they're mostly OC-based. Such fics barely seem like FSN at all to me, personally, and thus I have little interest in them most of the time (unless the characters are closely linked to the canon ones).

Originally Posted by Mike1984

As far as Sakura goes, if you try to portray her reasonably (i.e. don't treat her as a villain or someone entirely unsympathetic), then the worst you'll get from me is some constructive criticism about how you're not quite getting her right, and an offer to help if you want it. I do appreciate people making an effort, and if someone does then I will gladly help them improve.

What irritates me is when people ignore her or kill her off gratuitously. I can accept that characters do die sometimes, but it happens to Sakura far more often than the other main characters, and she rarely comes out of it with much credit, either (unlike the others, who usually at least die awesomely). Basically, it's mostly what Seika said. If Sakura is written in a way which fits with her true nature, I'm far less likely to complain than if the author obviously sees her as evil or entirely unsympathetic, or if they are using her as a villainous character without an extremely good justification.

As for sixth war fics, I think that the problem with a lot of them is that they're mostly OC-based. Such fics barely seem like FSN at all to me, personally, and thus I have little interest in them most of the time (unless the characters are closely linked to the canon ones).

What would you have me do, then? Feature only established canon characters in every role? Submit every scene with Sakura in it for your personal approval? Posts like this are what intimidate me so much.

Originally Posted by Irothtin

What would you have me do, then? Feature only established canon characters in every role? Submit every scene with Sakura in it for your personal approval? Posts like this are what intimidate me so much.

Hmm, I missed this post when you made it before, so I guess I might as well reply now even though it's a bit out of date.

I don't object to people using OCs at all (although others do, I think). I just don't have any interest in fics where the majority (or all) of the characters are OCs and the canon characters have little role.

As for Sakura scenes, I have actually beta-read for quite a few people, but in general I just want people to characterise her correctly. If you are at least trying to do that, then I'm not going to start flaming you. I might point out where I think you're getting it wrong, but that's part of the point of posting fics, so people can review them and point out mistakes. It doesn't mean that I'm attacking you, or trying to be intimidating.