Mike1984

We dont really have the right to go doing something about something that didnt happen on BL, you know? we dont run #notes.


seriously though, on a personal note, that was a total dick move on neir's part.

To be fair, I doubt that anybody on #notes will "cause you deliberate harm" with the absolutely limited information that they got from this.
Still sucks though.

Tobias: Honestly, if the rules lead to an unjust outcome, then you should just ignore them and do what is right. And it is most definitely unjust for Neir to get away scot-free with this just because it was technically not done on the site (even though everyone who saw it is a BL member and the only reason for him doing it is because he knows me from here), whilst I would get a warning for flaming him in return.

I'm aware, though, that there is nothing much the mods can do, which is why I PM'd the admins. I dunno if they will act or not, but I'd hope they'd at least keep this in mind next time Neir gets caught trolling....

Oh, this is what you meant by being pissed off.

Yeah, that was out of line, since as far as I'm aware you don't go around making your identity public.

Though it's entirely possible he looked it up himself.

He may well have looked it up himself, but that does not justify him sharing it with other people.

Honestly, if he goes looking for me and finds me, that's my fault for giving out enough information for him to do so, but for him to post it on the IRC chat so everyone knows is just totally unreasonable. Further, he knows damn well there won't be any consequences, and that, if anything, I will end up getting in trouble due to getting pissed off with him and flaming him.

I'd like to think the admins would just say "bugger that" and deal with him how he deserves to be dealt with, but I suspect they'll just say "sorry, but we must stick to the letter of the rules no matter how unjust the outcome", and do absolutely nothing....

I never said it justified it.

Mike, I won't deny that this is a really shitty situation for you. You have my sympathies, because...wow. This does suck for you. Not the worst case scenario, but I feel for you.

However, I highly doubt action will taken against Neir in this case. Suppose we did punish him for something done on notes. Should we punish people for things done on MSN? On other forums? Remember when you wanted to talk to me on MSN, and said straight up that you would likely end up flaming me? Would I have been within my rights to punish you for things said elsewhere? You even said that you didn't want to speak freely in a place where you could be punished so. Should we hold Neir to a different standard than we hold you?

I really am sorry that this happened. Perhaps the admins will feel differently, but I suspect it will be as you predicted.

I never told Neir, or anyone else for that matter (this post is the first I've heard of this situation, I haven't been to #notes in a while). Going "teehee I found your facebook" in a PM is one thing, but I'm at least not malicious enough to give out people's personal information to people who hate them.

Also the "lol it technically happened offsite so we can't touch them trololololo" thing is pretty shitty.

it's a antagonizing move designed to duck the system however while you can't punish him I expect that this act be counted against him when evaluating his behavior for punishment regarding things you can punish him for.

Hymn: there is a big difference between flaming someone off-site and going out of your way to give out personal information on them. I accept that, in general, it is not reasonable to punish people for something done off-site, but this is not a usual situation.

Honestly, I'm not particularly impressed by all this "we're sorry it happened, but we're not going to do anything about it because it's the rules" crap. You know damn well that what he did was wrong, and you know damn well that he did it to get at me. Further, he was talking solely to people he knows from this site and about someone he only knows from this site. Stop hiding behind the fucking rules and actually do something to resolve the situation, rather than punishing me when I retaliate.

Koto: OK. I don't know who, if anyone, told him, but I don't see any reason to disbelieve you.

Do not mistake sympathy for willingness to let you take this out on me.

And punishing you when you retaliate? As far as I'm aware, no action has been taken against you.

Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok

Do not mistake sympathy for willingness to let you take this out on me.

Right, so not only are you doing absolutely fuck all about it, you're actually threatening me now. I thought mods were supposed to be helpful.

Further, I was not "taking it out on you", I'm just saying that I do not buy all these bullshit excuses for not acting. What he did is wrong, and you should bloody well do something about it, rather than being nice little Lawful Stupid parrots who can't say anything but "sorry, it's not in the rules".

And punishing you when you retaliate? As far as I'm aware, no action has been taken against you.

Not yet, no, because I've not really done anything yet. But, if I do end up getting angry with Neir and flaming him, I suspect you'll take absolutely no account of what he's done here, because "the rules" don't say for you to.

That was not a threat. That was letting you know I'm not going to sit and listen to your rail on us over this just because I feel bad for you. But you are really not helping yourself at this moment in time.

And I find it immensely amusing that you want us to punish Neir for something off forum, when you keep advocate no rules or restrictions. As soon as it bites you in the ass, you want something done.

Ok, I may be a total dick, but no one deserves what in the fuck just happened to you mike.

That's god awfully just wrong to do morally. Neir, that seriously has just gotten you ALOT of cool points off my list people I deem alright.

Mike, Lots of Sympathy for you. But I'm not ready to use my certain powers I deemed to great of a risk to use anymore.

But if I was, because even if this was out of BL and out of your Jurisdiction, that is not a thing users of BL should do or have any right to do whatsoever.

@Hymn Okay, we get that he's ranting. So the eff what? He just had blatant distribution of his identity to others for the wrongful reasons of harassing him.

There are limits, and I'm certain to where I stand Mike is more the victim.

I'm sorry, but even with the way Mike is, THERE ARE LIMITS.

I'm not saying Mike can't rant Hazama. I'm just not going to play along with it. Obviously I'll probably keep monitoring the thread in case something breaks out, but I've seen how Darples and Mike get. More importantly, I've seen how much time and effort it wastes. Mike has his grievance. I acknowledge that he has reason to be upset, but pending a vastly different opinion from the absent mods and admins, I don't think anything will be done. I refuse to discuss it endlessly and with greater depth and nitpicks.

It takes two to tango and I'm not interested.

Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok

I'm not saying Mike can't rant Hazama. I'm just not going to play along with it. Obviously I'll probably keep monitoring the thread in case something breaks out, but I've seen how Darples and Mike get, but it takes two to tango and I'm not interested.

Well at least be prepared to spectate something that might get beyond our control.

If you didn't want to "play along with it", you probably shouldn't have commented in the first place.

Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok

That was not a threat. That was letting you know I'm not going to sit and listen to your rail on us over this just because I feel bad for you. But you are really not helping yourself at this moment in time.

Well, you're sure as hell not helping me either.

And I find it immensely amusing that you want us to punish Neir for something off forum, when you keep advocate no rules or restrictions. As soon as it bites you in the ass, you want something done.

No, you are totally missing the point. I do not support rigid rules which are enforced without sympathy or thought, like you seem to, and I don't support your policy on flaming (or even trolling, to some extent) either. I do, however, support you dealing with acts like the one Neir performed, and not just because it was performeed on me.

The problem with the system you are currently enforcing is that you punish someone getting angry and flaming, but yet you're unwilling to deal with something like this on a technicality. Sure, it wasn't on the forum, but it was quite clearly linked to the forum. Everyone he was talking to is on here, and he clearly did it to troll me on here (probably because he expected me to attack him and get myself in trouble).

But, you don't care about that. All you seem to care about is that your precious "rules" are seen to be followed. I get angry at someone, and I get warnings and bans, but Neir pulls a dick move like this and you do nothing, solely because the "rules" say you can't.

And don't start talking about flaming people privately (or even on other forums). Flaming is not really that serious, and you can quite easily handle it by just ignoring me. I cannot prevent Neir handing out the details to my facebook account, and the fact that he did it off the site does not make it any more justified.

Originally Posted by Hazama

Well at least be prepared to spectate something that might get beyond our control.

Of course he will, just so he can slap a warning on me if I start getting angry. Because dealing with some entirely justified flaming is apparently far more important than dealing with someone giving out the personal information of others....

Originally Posted by Hazama

Well at least be prepared to spectate something that might get beyond our control.

Wouldn't be sticking around if I wasn't worried that would happen.

Originally Posted by Kotonoha

If you didn't want to "play along with it", you probably shouldn't have commented in the first place.

I commented in the first place because I am​ sorry that this mess has fallen on his head. And as a mod I felt obligated to expound further.

The problem is that, whilst you're "sorry", you seem to advocate just letting it go. Further, I very much doubt you'd give me any kind of leeway if I were to flame Neir in the future. Given that, your sympathy seems rather hollow, if it doesn't even rise above your devotion to following the rules.

Admittedly, you personally cannot do much (hence why I contacted the admins and not the mods), but you don't seem to exactly be advocating dealing with it in any way whatsoever. Further, it's hardly like I can just pretend it never happened, so it is definitely going to cause trouble in the future.

As for you "sticking around", honestly, you're making it more likely to explode right now. Particularly since it seems like you're hanging around here solely to deal with me (which I assume means a warning) if it does, despite being entirely unwilling to do anything about Neir.