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Mike, Nier, everybody else...

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Before we continue, I'd just like to establish that at no point have I defended Nier's actions, nor do I particularly give a shit about the counter actions taken against him. This is nothing that affects me personally.

Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984
Shockingly enough, I do have people who I want to communicate with in real life. I'd just rather keep the two mostly seperate (aside from a few people I actually want to talk to off-site).
Which is why I said to block public access, which you've done, and which makes ^this a moot point.

Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984
I admit that, if someone were deliberately saving up all the information they could find on me, they could probably work out who I am, but I didn't expect anyone to go to those lengths.
I dont want to rain on your parade, but I can practically guarantee this is already being done.

Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984
Also, I suspect that he may have obtained the information by finding my e-mail address on Milbunk's wiki. It's hidden on there, but since everyone is an admin, he can see it anyway. It's possible he could have obtained the information from some of the mods on here, too (they can see hidden information), but I'd like to tink that they'd have more sense than that...
Hasnt it already been established that some other douche sent it to him?
More importantly, You're what, 27? 28? You're using a single email account across the board for everything? Writers (yes, I am considering you and most others on this site to be writers) have been using pen names to publish the things they want to keep "isolated" from their normal life since ancient times. A pen name (alternate email) is basically the least you can do. If anyone wants to try arguing that this isnt common sense, you'd better be ready to explain why this practice long predates the internet and has been used by so many noteworthy writers throughout history.

Before any of you wonderfully insightful gentlemen try jumping in to once again point out that "ooohh well how was he supposed to expect Meathead#1 (Nier) to go after his docs like this??" I'll answer: He isnt. Neir doesnt matter. Neir is just the face that this particular "breach" (not a breach) happened to take this time. Meatheads #2 and #3 are probably still out there, and have nothing to do with BL or #Notes.

Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984
Honestly, him finding it is not really going to change that much. I suspect most of the information on there is stuff he'd already know (or could have found out), and I don't put my phone number etc. on there. Plus, things like pictures (aside from the profile picture) aren't visible to people who aren't at least friends of friends anyway.
I'd like to get sloppy and use a metaphor here since it's too perfect, but basically what you are saying is that you live in a gated community. You've told the gate guard to wave your friends and family through and he keeps everyone else out. Now a fellow member of some social organization you are a part of in the nearby town has pointed out to other people the address of your house. At most, any uninvited guest can see your name and ID photo on a little card on a membership plaque, but the guard will still do his job and turn them away. This is not scandalous.

Do you freak out every time you get junk mail? Have you ever taken the time to check some of it out? If you did, you'd probably notice that some of it is actually targeted. By that I mean that not only does it have your name and address on it, but lots of companies these days are in cahoots with major credit cards and even banks. They know far more about your private life than anyone on BL by following all of your buying habits and they actually want to use this information to get money from you. Facebook too. Google. Do you clear your cookies every time you close your browser? Faceless companies looking to take advantage of you are watching you much more closely than Nier or anyone on BL.

Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984
But, that doesn't make his intent any less bad.
Now, this has been bugging me since I saw your original reaction post, but I think the single largest assumption here is on your part, Mike. Forgive me if this sounds callous, but is there even one person on this forum or #notes who legitimately gives enough of a shit about you to harm your way of life as it exists beyond the Nasuverse fandom?I seriously doubt that anyone here truly has it out for you, so before you say "oh but Neir!" I have to stress that your whole outrage is largely based on the assumption of Nier's malignant intent. I've only been a member of this forum for a few months, but I have seen nothing in the behavior of anyone here that they are "out to get you" irl.

Your entire diatribe stems from your thought that not only was Nier looking to cause you some sort of harm when he shared that link, but that the proof of such is evident because the environment in which he shared it was indisputably hostile towards you.
This is a logical fallacy. Not only is the latter dubious, but the first 'truth' you are holding to hinges entirely on the truth of the second.

Mike:
If you actually feel that way, why would you chose to continuously participate in such a hostile environment? This smacks of nothing more than persecution mania on your part.

To the administration:
If there really are people on this forum who maliciously and provably want to damage the private life of another forum member, why are they still allowed to be here? If you honestly cant trust someone like Nier, why stop at a week-long ban? Why not just get rid of a malicious forum member once and for all?
Conversely, if you can not resolutely say that Nier is a malicious person and that his action was undeniably intent on hurting Mike, why ban him at all? You cant have it both ways.

My main point in summary is this:
An already private facebook link shared in an IRC chat is nothing. If a "breach" at this level shocks you, you might have a difficult time coping with the huge likelihood that far more important data like your social security number and credit card information is sitting on one if not dozens of eastern european hard drives this very second, buried deep down on a list of ten thousand others, probably including mine and your mother's as well.
Rather than making an emo shitstorm about this, lets all use it as a life lesson to underscore the values of personal information security.

Now before you dismiss it as being improbable or easy to avoid, know this:
Even someone as paranoid and careful as me still ended up having to visit his nice bank manager and explain that he had not recently been in Latvia trying to buy $800 worth of bitcoins.

Updated June 22nd, 2012 at 07:58 PM by Crying_Vegeta

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  1. Mike1984's Avatar
    More importantly, You're what, 27? 28? You're using a single email account across the board for everything? Writers (yes, I am considering you and most others on this site to be writers) have been using pen names to publish the things they want to keep "isolated" from their normal life since ancient times. A pen name (alternate email) is basically the least you can do. If anyone wants to try arguing that this isnt common sense, you'd better be ready to explain why this practice long predates the internet and has been used by so many noteworthy writers throughout history.
    Honestly, I lack sufficient creativity to think of pen-names. Further, when I joined BL, I did not expect it to become as big a thing as it did, and thus I did not expect it would matter. As for Milbunk's site, I didn't use my main e-mail for signing up to that, but the e-mail I did use is still connected to my facebook account anyway. The problem is that making large numbers of e-mail accounts and keeping track of the e-mails you get is not easy, at least for sites you actually care about (sites I don't care about get fake e-mail addresses, or temporary ones).

    Having said that, I do go by the name "Cherry_lover" on many forums now. However, that only came about after I first joined BL.

    Mike: If you actually feel that way, why would you chose to continuously participate in such a hostile environment? This smacks of nothing more than persecution mania on your part.
    Because not everyone on the site is Neir....

    To the administration: If there really are people on this forum who maliciously and provably want to damage the private life of another forum member, why are they still allowed to be here? If you honestly cant trust someone like Nier, why stop at a week-long ban? Why not just get rid of a malicious forum member once and for all?
    Because they feel like giving someone a second chance, perhaps?

    Conversely, if you can not resolutely say that Nier is a malicious person and that his action was undeniably intent on hurting Mike, why ban him at all? You cant have it both ways.
    Well, it was either malicious or highly negligent.

    Your entire diatribe stems from your thought that not only was Nier looking to cause you some sort of harm when he shared that link, but that the proof of such is evident because the environment in which he shared it was indisputably hostile towards you.
    No, not really. It only takes one such person for it to be an issue and, further, even if no-one on there is like that it does not justify breeching my privacy like he did.
  2. SeiKeo's Avatar
    Look, the issue is under review with new information by the moderation team and the administration, and we'll be getting back to you on this fairly shortly with a longer explanation. Until then, may I ask the board in general to not speculate on action that is currently under review and does not have the full information publicly released?
  3. Crying_Vegeta's Avatar
    Mike, you've pretty much sidestepped or perhaps bumbled obliviously past every single point I've made. Please admit that you have aspergers syndrome. Attempting to communicate with you is a perfect match with the kind of conversations I used to have with my autistic room mate. It would explain so much and make you seem like less of a dork because then I'd know you couldnt help it.
  4. Mike1984's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crying_Vegeta
    Mike, you've pretty much sidestepped or perhaps bumbled obliviously past every single point I've made.
    No, not really, I'm just ignoring most of it because I know how security works and I'm not interested in having a lecture in it from you.

    Please admit that you have aspergers syndrome. Attempting to communicate with you is a perfect match with the kind of conversations I used to have with my autistic room mate. It would explain so much and make you seem like less of a dork because then I'd know you couldnt help it.
    You're by no means the first person ever to suggest that, but I've never been tested for it.
  5. Lycodrake's Avatar
    ...I'm trying to not be offended by that comment, Crying_Vegeta; really, I am...
  6. Fingolfin's Avatar
    A strange issue this is. It could be worse. I mean, Nier could have discovered how to log into Mike's Facebook and assumed his identity to slander him in some way, and then passed the info on how to do so around. This, comparably, isn't that bad. So, people know your Facebook now, they know where to find you. Yeah, some e-thugs could use this stuff to mess with you on private grounds.

    Just flip them the bird, words mean nothing. Punks, will be punks. I wouldn't worry too much Mike.
    Updated June 22nd, 2012 at 10:44 PM by Fingolfin
  7. Crying_Vegeta's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycodrake
    ...I'm trying to not be offended by that comment, Crying_Vegeta; really, I am...
    And you seem to be doing a bang up job. I have nothing to complain about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogodaka
    A strange issue this is. It could be worse. I mean, Nier could have discovered how to log into Mike's Facebook and assumed his identity to slander him in some way, and then passed the info on how to do so around. This, comparably, isn't that bad. So, people know your Facebook now, they know where to find you. Yeah, some e-thugs could use this stuff to mess with you on private grounds.

    Just flip them the bird, words mean nothing. Punks, will be punks. I wouldn't worry too much Mike.
    But will these hypothetical e-thugs even be BL members? I venture that they will not. The worries of people here about the other people here are basically unfounded.
    Updated June 22nd, 2012 at 11:01 PM by Crying_Vegeta
  8. Aiden's Avatar
    I notice all of your blog posts are about Mike. XD
  9. TetsuoS2's Avatar
    I see now...
  10. Elf's Avatar
    Crying_Vegeta is letting his secret love for Mike blossom and grow!
  11. Satehi's Avatar
    A forbidden romance that blooms amidst the forum political turmoil!
  12. Alyeris's Avatar
    ... I lost the plot around Mike and his continuing war against his critics a few months ago and I never got it back.
  13. Aiden's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Elf
    Crying_Vegeta is letting his secret love for Mike blossom and grow!
    Not so secret now!
  14. Laith's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyeris
    ... I lost the plot around Mike and his continuing war against his critics a few months ago and I never got it back.
    It just went from critics to admins to mods to critics again. It's so repetitive so you didn't lose much =V
  15. Dark Pulse's Avatar
    Posted a topic on this that should hopefully clear up the confusion.

    In short: Stop blaming Neir. Negligent, yes. Stalker, no.
  16. Crying_Vegeta's Avatar
    I'm tsundere for mike...
  17. Crying_Vegeta's Avatar
    There are too many people on my blog!
    GET OUT GET OOOUUT
    http://www.boingboing.net/images/ghooooooooost.png
  18. I3uster's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crying_Vegeta
    Mike, you've pretty much sidestepped or perhaps bumbled obliviously past every single point I've made. Please admit that you have aspergers syndrome. Attempting to communicate with you is a perfect match with the kind of conversations I used to have with my autistic room mate. It would explain so much and make you seem like less of a dork because then I'd know you couldnt help it.
    "Please admit that you have a neurological disorder that I attest you by virtue on being an expert on this topic." or what?

    You're kinda like the socially awkward kid that says it has Aspergers after it read the Wikipedia page about it. (This is not a good thing)
  19. Crying_Vegeta's Avatar
    Or I lived with an autistic man for two years and have grown pretty comfortable with the subject.
  20. Mike1984's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Pulse
    Posted a topic on this that should hopefully clear up the confusion.

    In short: Stop blaming Neir. Negligent, yes. Stalker, no.
    How can you describe posting the link on #notes as "negligent"?

    It was a deliberate act. OK, so he might not have thought it through, but he still made an active choice. It's not like he got his password stolen and someone read his PMs.

    Also, I already knew Flame had my facebook account details, and I was not complaining at him about that, particularly since I basically challenged him to do so. My issue is with it being posted publically, not with people attempting to find it.

    And, whilst Flame is partially responsible for that, since he gave Neir the information in the first place, he did not intend for it to go this far. Further, unlike Neir, he has apologised for his actions, and seems generally contrite about it. If anyone here was negligent rather than malicious, it was Flame, not Neir.
    Updated June 23rd, 2012 at 10:13 AM by Mike1984
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