Also we can use the data from Lu Bu Feng Xian's test. Assume green number 25183 is the lower limit of 3rd position dmg 25183*1.2/ 1.4 = 21585 (2nd position lower limit) 21585*1.1/0.9=26381(2nd position upper limit) Since Lu Bu has 28241 dmg at the 2nd position, proved [card position] is not involved.
They are patching tonight... don't know if they gonna fix/change to anything here or not.. :< Guess have to test again later when I have time ugh..
My test also indicate that Aedra is right. Using Vlad III, the damage of third position can become a lot lower then the lower limit of 1.4*1st position lower limit , its still in 1st position's lower range (random modifier 0.9 to 1.0). And using my Heracles, the damage output is so much more then Vlad III. Yup, in range of 1.5x vlad III's NP dmg. (The difference between their ATK is calculated, I'm not an idiot LOL) Since they have the same npDamageMultiplier (before Vlad III upgraded his NP), I believe [card type] is involved in the NP dmg.
I splitted For [card type] In my previous post is to determine the [card type] being use in cardDamageValue or not.. per testing result (though, only 4 so far), yes it is being use (1 for Art, 0.8 for Quick and 1.5 for Buster) For [card position] It's next to impossible to test w/o a collective of data due to random modifier unless I false proof it (Base on random modifier range limit from 0.9 to 1.1). Which I did back then at Heracles testing ( ATK = 7281, no CE, attack wyvern, ignore {1 + (traitModifier * hasSuperEffectiveTrait) + (statusTraitModifier * hasSuperEffectiveStatus)} ) From calculating NP 1st position, - random modifier = 1 : damage = 24,372 lower limit (0.9) = 21,955 , upper limit (1.1) = 26,789 Real NP damage on 1st positions varies from 22,268 to 26,305 which fall within calculating range. Assumption: If [card position] is being used NP damage 2nd position would be lower limit = 26,306 and upper limit = 32,107 NP damage 3rd position would be lower limit = 30,657 and upper limit = 37,425 Though, the NP damage for 2nd and 3rd positions are all in range of 1st hit. Thus, I false proof the assumption and conclude that [card position] is not being used in cardDmgValue. Assumption cardDamageValue (testing in progress..) while it's true that data from 1 testing is not enough, I'll keep getting more test data first for both testing until I can finally sure.
It's 8% for Herk's ME and 200 for Divinity, yes. Your results are kinda weird, though. Not sure why. Here's a test. While I split it into two parts, the game treats cardDamageValue as one single value (adjustAtk keyed to id (card type) and num (card position)). Test if the same NP does different damage if it's first, second or third. That should make it quite clear whether or not cardDamageValue is being used.
Originally Posted by epherion What about divinity? I've seen the % on the japanese wiki, but how does it actually affect my damage? According to Kyte, it is raw value base, not % base. Though I feel the value is so low that I can ignore for NP dmg for the time being. As kyte has yet to publish the value of each servant skills, I'll wait and see first. Back to the NP dmg, for cardDamageValue I've tested with 3 more servants here's the result from calculating (unbuff, only CE and passive, ignoring all the NP trait in calculating) Though, I'm still waiting for more value from my friends.. test result
What about divinity? I've seen the % on the japanese wiki, but how does it actually affect my damage?
Still there's something I'm still not sure about the type of NP (art , quick, bust ) regarding to my testing this http://i.imgur.com/hpkOIJU.png Heracles ATK = 7281 (Earth) against Wyvern (Sky) His NP damage if simplify by ignoring all trait bonus and damage plus / damage cut dmg = 7281 x 600% (I got from JP site unless it is wrong) x (1+0.08) x 1.5 x 1.1 x 0.9 x (1 from random) x 0.23 since no buff other parts are ignored at random = 1 np damage would be 16,114 (while from testing show that he is at least 22k to 26k dmg) If I multiply 16,114 by 1.5 it would be 24,171 which would make more sense... so it would be either 1) the NP type for multipler ( 1 , 0.8 , 1.5) has affect 2) the part {1 + (traitModifier * hasSuperEffectiveTrait) + (statusTraitModifier * hasSuperEffectiveStatus)}] + dmgPlusAdd can be replace by ~8000 dmg (1.5 times) 3) NP modifier is not 600% and mad enhancement rank B is not 8% 4) idk the dmgplus from heracles's divinity but 8,000 is too outrageous I'll try testing with quick / art NP type first, but if possible phantasymind plz share your NP dmg calculation you spoke of earlier Kyte, if possible and if u have time, can u check heracle's mad enhancement modifier? base on JP it is 8%
Originally Posted by Aedra Force close the game and log in again. The random modifier will be the same. these modifiers seem to be predetermined ahead first. The thing is, these random modifier will be change according to action you do in group. Buff(servant) Buff(master) Attack (order) sth like this Yeah this is because the game always rolls for success chance even if the chance is 100%. Since it uses the same pRNG for all actions, it'll advance the pRNG's state at different rates. Originally Posted by PhantasyMind Well, after a few moment, I realized this coding is fine. I'm just shocked by the news and become too excited. BTW, after I input both cardDamageValue, cardMod as 1, the result is a bit too low compare to the reality. After reading the post of Aedra,, I change my equation and the result fit with my test. My observation is the first card bonus does not apply on NP , but the cardMod does apply on NPs. Might you help us clarify the NP equation ? I am trying to use the data of http://www9.atwiki.jp/f_go/pages/172.html to compare the damage output of Heracles and Vlad III ( which is quite a discussion in Chinese forum.) NPs use the same function as normal damage, but don't use card-based modifiers, as you guys have already proven. (Except Buster/Quick/Arts Up) They also don't crit. So it should simplify to: damage for this card = [servantAtk * npDamageMultiplier * (1 + cardMod) * classAtkBonus * triangleModifier * attributeModifier * randomModifier * 0.23 * (1 + atkMod - defMod) * {1 + powerMod + selfDamageMod + npDamageMod} * {1 + (traitModifier * hasSuperEffectiveTrait) + (statusTraitModifier * hasSuperEffectiveStatus)}] + dmgPlusAdd + selfDmgCutAdd
I'll believe your testing, that part of the code is too complex to follow just by reading so I don't fully trust my interpretation. If it's so easy to replicate then it's pretty clear what's going on, anyways.
Oh huh I didn't even notice that.
Originally Posted by Kyte Hm? What d'you mean there's already an Earth? "Are you sure Star isn't Planet?" "It's probably Earth" = Human, Sky, Earth, Earth, Beast
Originally Posted by PhantasyMind how did you get the exact same value of DMG LOL Force close the game and log in again. The random modifier will be the same. these modifiers seem to be predetermined ahead first. The thing is, these random modifier will be change according to action you do in group. Buff(servant) Buff(master) Attack (order) sth like this
Originally Posted by Aedra Another testing to find the first card bonus with resetting method the result I got is this.. Though, there are some unknown which i'm not sure.. that either trigger new random modifier or reduce dmg . That unknown is saber alter's buster card, which if used before using NP then damage is lower from the pic how did you get the exact same value of DMG LOL
Well, after a few moment, I realized this coding is fine. I'm just shocked by the news and become too excited. BTW, after I input both cardDamageValue, cardMod as 1, the result is a bit too low compare to the reality. After reading the post of Aedra,, I change my equation and the result fit with my test. My observation is the first card bonus does not apply on NP , but the cardMod does apply on NPs. Might you help us clarify the NP equation ? I am trying to use the data of http://www9.atwiki.jp/f_go/pages/172.html to compare the damage output of Heracles and Vlad III ( which is quite a discussion in Chinese forum.)
Another testing to find the first card bonus with resetting method the result I got is this.. Though, there are some unknown which i'm not sure.. that either trigger new random modifier or reduce dmg . That unknown is saber alter's buster card, which if used before using NP then damage is lower from the pic
Regarding cardMod I think it might affect the NP dmg.. Did a multiple 'reset the game' testing (random modifier is fixed unless certain action is taken such as buff, masterbuff , order of attack http://i.imgur.com/hpkOIJU.png) (from the pic, I can change buff to various servant buff and result is the same excluding attack buff which change the dmg) From what I tested to find cardMod effectiveness, I have Heracles NP@ 100% saber alter NP@100% 1st: I buff heracles dodge(self), then use NP to see his dmg = X. (I deleted the value) (NP sth sth) 2nd: I buff alter with buster (self), then use heracles's NP to see his dmg.. still the same as before e.g. X dmg (NP sth sth) 3rd: I use another servant buff that is not attack-related (once per testing), use heracles NP still got the same X dmg my first conclusion is that alter's buster buff trigger the same random modifier as other servant buff. Then, I test alter's NP after using other servant buff (2-3 times). NP dmg = Y (same every time) after that, I test with alter's buster then use her NP. got NP dmg = Y + 30% What I conclude from this is that buster performance buff (cardMod) affect NP. I'll try testing again and post my data later.
How is that dumb, anyways? (I think the first card bonus does apply, though) When I meant it was a side-effect I meant coding-wise, I strongly doubt it was accidental.
Well, yeah. NPs have their own multipliers. Most AoE NPs do 300% attack, for example.
Originally Posted by Kyte Ok, I checked. I didn't notice at first 'cause it was a side effect of how the system works (namely, the NP damage function calls the normal damage function with an 'empty' card which makes a bunch of lookups and calculations fail and default to 1 or 0) rather than an explicit effect. But yes. cardDamageValue, cardMod both default to 1 and no Buster Chain bonus either. NPs can never critical, either (although this much is obvious since they don't get stars). They also don't build NP% or drop crit stars. Does that mean the type of the NP (red ,green or blue) does not affect the damage output? Also, how about the first card bonus? Do you mean the hole " (firstCardBonus + (cardDamageValue * (1 + cardMod)))" is default to 1 ? LOL, GOOD JOB DW!
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