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Marmadillo

About Type Moonies

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Reposted from random thoughts, because this is a better place.

This is my earnest if somewhat disorganized attempt to summarize the reasons why there's sometimes so much crap and shit flinging when discussing Typemoon works. I'm reposting this from ANN (obviously because that review created a shitstorm of significant proportions even for ANN) since I'm too lazy to make a similar comment.


The fandom has been bickering among itself probably since Day 1. The reasons for that are numerous I think. One would be that the intricacy of the worldbuilding attracts a certain kind of fan that obsesses over such things and how everything glues together and feels like correcting everyone that overlooks some detail or has an interpretation that seems more unlikely to that fan. Reason two would obviously be online disinhibition effect, which shows up everywhere, not just in relation with TypeMoon. Thirdly, as I said, many Fate fans have grown accustomed to all this bickering, they don't give much thought about how they present their arguments, this is just normal for them. Nasu's style of storytelling is also a factor, it's long-winded, sometimes deceitful and ambiguous in it's word choice, dancing around the point, which comes of as pretentious or contradictory. That is not something anime fans are accustomed to and can create a lot of misconceptions no matter if you're a fan or not. Finally, obviously most of us are kind of nerdy here, with our issues and necessity to validate our opinions. For all the talk about interpretations and subjectivity of opinions, it's not that easy a concept to swallow when you're the one who's 'truth' is challenged by something. What makes it harder is that, as much as we would sometimes want otherwise, literary criticism is still subject to the rules of critical thinking so people have full rights to call out interpretations that miss evidence in the text or seem to not be very compatible with it since that would make such interpretations unlikely or at least less valuable than other ones.


I actually don't think BL is that hard hit by what I wrote, personally this is the best community I've found so far to be a part of as a TM fan.

Updated May 27th, 2015 at 10:44 AM by Marmadillo

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  1. Rafflesiac's Avatar
    There's also the part where the ANN reviewers wanted Fate/One by Gen Urobuchi instead of Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works by Kinoko Nasu.

    That's responsible for a solid 50% of the disconnect at the very least.
  2. SeiKeo's Avatar
    You can say autism if you're going to post it on ANN. I think.
  3. Renko's Avatar
    "the best community I've found so far"

    I want to laugh so hard but I will not.

    Odd. I never heard the term "Typemoonies" until last year or so....
  4. Marmadillo's Avatar
    I won't be surprised if they're filtering both autism and retarded.
  5. Marmadillo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Renko
    "the best community I've found so far"

    I want to laugh so hard but I will not.
    Admittedly I don't go to fanclub and fic sections.
  6. Imperial's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac
    There's also the part where the ANN reviewers wanted Fate/One by Gen Urobuchi instead of Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works by Kinoko Nasu.

    That's responsible for a solid 50% of the disconnect at the very least.
    That's at the heart of it.

    That, and the fact that aspects of the VN haven't been translated to the screen very well. People complain that Shirou is a generic, stubborn, stupid, plot armored shounen lead when it's his inner monologue that really breaks a lot of that down and shows us how broken he is to arrive at his kind of thinking in the first place.
  7. mAc Chaos's Avatar
    Why is ANN always the standard and BL is the one that gets psychoanalyzed? ANN is part of TM fandom too, they're just dysfunctional.
  8. You's Avatar
    why doesn't ANN go psychoanalyze jbbs instead.
  9. Daiki's Avatar
    Why nobody psychoanalyzes 4chan
  10. GhostDIGIT's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Daiki
    Why nobody psychoanalyzes 4chan
    They join them.
  11. Marmadillo's Avatar
    I'm 'psychoanalyzing' what I know to some extent, that is BL, ANN, MAL, 4chan, Youtube, Crunchyroll, Neogaf, Tumblr, Animesuki and a couple of blogs. There are certain characteristics that set different communities apart, but I really don't buy much into this tribal warfare crap, especially since quite a lot of people participate in several of them. Typemoon fans (and haters) can be dicks everywhere so I wanted to sketch in the reasons apart from what community they belong to.
    Updated May 27th, 2015 at 02:25 PM by Marmadillo
  12. mAc Chaos's Avatar
    But nothing you described is anything unique; the same qualities are in every fandom with any sort of plot or setting. Go try to drop some BS about LOTR and see how fast they rip into you.

    The fact is that when it comes to ANN the reviewers are just pushing some weird disconnected fantasy instead of the actual work in front of them so they get called out on it. Meanwhile everybody is hitting tons of keys and twisting themselves into pretzels trying to make up some other reason for it.
  13. Marmadillo's Avatar
    What I described is not unique, we all have the same brain chemistry, but I've heard so much complaining about crazy TM fans at this point to give it a little bit more thought than I have about other fandoms. ANN review was the trigger for my ramblings, but not the sole reason or target.
  14. Five_X's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos
    But nothing you described is anything unique; the same qualities are in every fandom with any sort of plot or setting. Go try to drop some BS about LOTR and see how fast they rip into you.

    The fact is that when it comes to ANN the reviewers are just pushing some weird disconnected fantasy instead of the actual work in front of them so they get called out on it. Meanwhile everybody is hitting tons of keys and twisting themselves into pretzels trying to make up some other reason for it.
    Basically this. The crazy train's just stopped in at TM town for the season because UBW is airing; go to any other fandom's "main" site and you'll find the same or worse. Very often worse. TM is still quite niche, even today.
  15. RacingeR's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmadillo
    What I described is not unique, we all have the same brain chemistry, but I've heard so much complaining about crazy TM fans at this point to give it a little bit more thought than I have about other fandoms. ANN review was the trigger for my ramblings, but not the sole reason or target.
    And I've heard so much complaining about Naruto fans. And Nanoha fans. And everything fans. You're basically describing all the fandoms ever and the toxicity you can indeed find in any of them.

    If you admit it is not unique, then there's no real point to this either, since basically everything you said applies to practically every active fandom. Basically, it feels like tribal warfare because you're trying to defend ANN's completely delusional posture by trying to 'excuse' the TM fandom... despite the fact that like it or not, they are the ones on the wrong there. I don't think there's a need for any of this, and it is the pointlessness itself of your statements, apart from trying to basically assign dickishness as an absolute characteristic of the fandom, what feels like you're trying to defend ANN's posture.
  16. Marmadillo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by RacingeR
    Basically, it feels like tribal warfare because you're trying to defend ANN's completely delusional posture by trying to 'excuse' the TM fandom... despite the fact that like it or not, they are the ones on the wrong there.
    Well, I'm not the one who refers to a community as a singular entity. It's one person's opinion and the inevitable bandwagon. I'm more interested in why does who's wrong and who's right often matter more than agreeing to disagree or sometimes even basic civility. And the object of that question is disagreements in discussions about TM works, particularly UBW since it's the hot topic as Five already said. I probably chose the title of the post incorrectly since this is not just a criticism of (or excuses for) Typemoon fans as my last two points should make abundantly clear.
    Updated May 27th, 2015 at 07:41 PM by Marmadillo
  17. Spinach's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X
    Basically this. The crazy train's just stopped in at TM town for the season because UBW is airing; go to any other fandom's "main" site and you'll find the same or worse. Very often worse. TM is still quite niche, even today.
    Ehhhh, in anime circles TM has escaped being this niche thing since the Zero anime. Familiarity with the Fate franchise is really common, you'd be hard pressed to talk to an anime turbonerd who hasn't been through the hoops to some degree.
  18. Imperial's Avatar
    What Spin said. We mainstream now.
  19. Five_X's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach
    Ehhhh, in anime circles TM has escaped being this niche thing since the Zero anime. Familiarity with the Fate franchise is really common, you'd be hard pressed to talk to an anime turbonerd who hasn't been through the hoops to some degree.
    Fate's mainstream, but Type-Moon in general is pretty niche. I mean, even anime in general is niche in the grand scheme of things that nerds like. Visual novels themselves, if you're going that far into TM, are a niche within a niche; you'd be amazed at how many anime fans do not know what a visual novel is.
  20. Spinach's Avatar
    I know anime is niche, my point is that within the niche that is anime, TM is not really niche anymore. People have exposure, they have the Fate franchise, which is quite massive right now within the niche bubble that is anime. They don't look and go "oh, Type-Moon," but rather "oh, Fate," but that doesn't mean they aren't being exposed to TM, because as shocking as it may be, Fate is Type-Moon. You don't have to read or even know what a VN is to have exposure or passing familiarity with this stuff, there's anime, manga, light novels, fighting games, a PSP rpg and soon a mobage.

    Type-Moon isn't just the VNs anymore, the anime adaptations are as much TM as anything else. Saying Fate's mainstream but TM isn't is silly.
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