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Polly

Ye Ole Lair of the Beasts

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So. I have decided to write a rant about BL. Although I never meant to. Although I hate the entire label of rant.

Be forewarned, this is going to be long so if you don't feel like going through a wall of text but still want to know what the hell I'm craping about, there's a tl;dr at the end of the text.


Anyway, how come that I, who has been more or less absent for a while, is suddenly writing a moralising rant about the state of the forum?
Truthfully, in large part it has to do with the fact that I'm seeing some problems that I come across IRL, only with some alterations due to the niche nature of this forum. And these problems have been present here on BL for quite a while, though they seem to have intensified in these last few months or so. Or at least that's how I perceive it, I could be wrong due to my absense.

And this absense of mine is where I want to start.
Partly it had to do with things that have little or nothing to do with the forum; namely my poor health ( both mental and physical ) and the academic problems resulting from it. And because of those problems there is now a virtually unbridgeable gap between myself and most of the forum, as I have fallen behind on new materials and lore and have neither the focus nor the energy to bridge that gap.
But more importantly, I feel like I have lost the willpower to reengage in the fandom and the lore. BL was, for a considerable time, an engine that pushed me into new TM stuff, from Angel Notes to Fate/Extra. Being part of the fandom meant being a part of a community and making friends here.
So why not anymore?

The answer is both a second part of the reason why I'm not that active anymore, and also the main issue I wanted to tackle with this post.
To put it shortly, it's because I find the forum hostile.

And no, it's not because I've gone to tumblr and returned an SJW. It's not because I'm a single-minded radical with no ear nor tolerance for dissenting worldviews and opinions. No, when I say hostile it's got to do not with people holding different beliefs or having different interests. It's about communication.
It's about the fact that BL has become a community hostile both to newcomers and insiders alike, with those not fitting in becoming either targeted or pushed away.

Before your fingers fly to your keyboards, no, I don't believe that BL should or can be some sort of safe haven for everyone ever, an all-accomodating utopia.
Internet is a vast space, and there's a myriad of smaller and bigger corners of it, with vastly differing communities of people flocking to them. I think it's perfectly natural and acceptable that these communities will be more or less a niche for specific types of people, that not everything is for everyone.

However, I also do not think that this should allow a community to become so closed, so inward-looking, that it effectively makes a hostile atmosphere for newbies, where people who are not part of (a) clique(s) ultimately leave, confused, angry, and hurt.
And it seems to me that BL has gradually receded into this exact state.
This is not down to ideological differences, differences in life experience ( at least not directly ), different taste in things... no, it mostly has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with how we treat each other ( yes, I'm using 'we' because I include myself in all of this ).

Communication in BL has grown toxic, hostile, intolerant. Beneath a veneer of casual dudebroness and friendly banter, there is an underlying problem of both an unwritten 'code of conduct' and a hostility to people who don't know the 'code' or otherwise don't fit in.
Yes, there are certain cliques of friends, mainly among older forumers, and no, not everyone has to be friends with everyone.
Yes, people clash and argue over things from politics to trash anime, and no, we should not silence ourselves or others in some sort of pointless quest for forum peace and harmony.

But at the end of the day we should be able to be CIVIL and POLITE to each other in spite of our differences.
We may not like some people, or disagree with others, or downright loathe someone, but we should attempt, to our utmost, to treat others with consideration, patience, and I dare say kindness.

Some people here are mentally ill. Some are disabled. Some have short fuses, some are not thick-skinned. Some hate NGE, some love it. Apart from genuinely extreme cases like rape apologists or paedophiles, which I believe shouldn't be welcome anywhere, I think everyone should be able to be a memeber of this forum. Everyone should have a say, and no one should be ostracised for what they say.
Everyone should be treated with due respect, kindness, and politness.

I am not advocating though policing. I am not trying to dictate how you all should feel or talk.
I suspect that many here take me for an extremist and a radical - and I probably won't argue - but I do believe in pluralism, in freedom of expression as long as it doesn't advocate restricting the freedoms of others. I am not here to tell you to think the way I see fit.

I am, however, saying that all of us need to rethink the way we act.

And this isn't me just trying to make BL a nanny state or seeing things that aren't here.
Why do you think Seika and the rest of the Admins and Mods introduced those rules? Because they were bored? Because they want to ruin your fun?

No. It's because this forum has serious issues with everyday communication between forumers. People get alienated if they don't fit with certain behavioral patterns, if they're not 'one of the lads'. I personally know several cases.
And when people get alienated and hurt, they either leave the forum or take the route of staying but putting some emotional distance, someting I have done myself. And this means no seriousposting because that means emotional investing.
So we end up with tons of 'shitposting' and then complain about quality of the forum going to hell.

And it's really not much that I'm asking we do.
Be more patient with people. Be more polite. Be kinder and more considerate.
Just be decent people.

Is someone just too annoying for you? Are they straining your patience and consideration to the breaking point? Then don't act like Petri and pollute threads with your bursts of negativity, and ultimately leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Either sort it out with them in private ( PMs, Skype, i don't care how ) or through a mediator ( mods are there for you ).
This hostile atmosphere is not something I personally want to take part in, and I don't believe new people would be too happy to stay seeing how we treat each other.



Tl;dr - please stop being hostile to each other. We must work on our communication and how we treat people. Latest incident with Prix and Petri is just the tip of the iceberg, and I'm sick of the forum being like this.
Be more polite, be more considerate, be more patient.

Please, for the love of god, let us be more civil and decent to each other.



This has been both a personal unloading of emotions and frustration, and a genuine, honest appeal to all of us here on BL.
And if there are people who think that this is an attempt at policing them rather than an appeal for us to be better to each other for the sake of making the forum a better place, then BL has truly and irreversibly gone to hell.

Polly out.
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  1. Leftovers's Avatar
    I don't know. Fun, bants, and people's inability to acclimate to them have been cited as factors that brought about this situation.
  2. Polly's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers
    I don't know. Fun, bants, and people's inability to acclimate to them have been cited as factors that brought about this situation.
    Surely putting a small amount of effort into managing the third factor would go a long way to making people feel more welcome and not driving people away, both newcomers and those who aren't?

    Seriously, is it that much to ask people to be more mindful of others? Bant is fine and well within certain circles but it's fully understandable that new people, unnaccustomed to it, might react poorly to it.
  3. Leftovers's Avatar
    That is very true as a general sentiment and a forum tenet, but I have to echo Bridge in that it sweeps too broadly and too vaguely. Because when I look past the isolated microcosm of Random Thoughts and out to the forum, I see GD teeming with new faces, Grand Order drawing unprecedented crowds from all over the internet, more translation projects on TYPE-MOON works than ever, and all of that drawing from the new posters that have come to the forum. A forum that, I should add, no longer has a purple menace patrolling the threads for suboptimal anime girl opinions, nor a Danish flamerdog pouncing at every post, where it's no longer acceptable to be called a retard for not knowing your Nasu well enough, and where even chan terminology has been cut down on, though not outright banned.

    Beast's Lair is in some ways more accommodating than it's ever been. We feel the problems of RT to a greater degree as its regulars, and it has grown at a ludicrous rate in a very short amount of time, but ultimately the nigh-unmoderated chat room of the 7th cannot be considered a mirror of BL in any substantial way.
  4. Leftovers's Avatar
    I don't want to speculate on the delineation of an experienced poster. I just think that the 7th is no place for someone to spend their formative time on BL in.
  5. Polly's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgeburner
    Actually the problem here is that some people were inducted as regular not-new posters too quickly for their own good, and before the latter had a full vision of the forum, one that allowed them to understand what it was and wasn't.


    Which goes double for you Polly, because you're not a new user and you really should know better than to conflate all the subforums together and to treat what happens in 7th as exemplary of the general forum mood.

    As for the rest, we can all agree that "we should be nicer, not drive people off, not insult gratuitously" and all that jazz, because it's that kind of uncommitted, directionless stuff that no one would ever disagree with. Devil's in the details, here.
    Maybe it was much of me to presume, but I assumed it would be apparent that I was referring to the 7th and the threads for general hanging-out, and not specific lore-oriented threads, with that whole part where I write why I'm not active on the forum anymore.

    Appologies for not making it clearer, though.

    In any case the details is not what my post was meant to be about. Because then we go into dictating forum policy, into discussion about banning this or that kind of behaviour, etc etc. JBeamu did that with the 'Problems with moderation' thread and that kind of talk and 'reform' of the forum is not something I'm interested in. And that has mostly to do with the aforementioned fact that I am not very active anymore and thus I don't think it's my place to try and tell the rest of the forum to act how I see fit. Except for the general politness I guess.

    You could say that me not wanting to go into detail, but staying with broad strokes about general interpersonal communication, is me exercising self-constraint.
  6. Polly's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers
    I don't want to speculate on the delineation of an experienced poster. I just think that the 7th is no place for someone to spend their formative time on BL in.
    And I agree with you.
  7. Snow's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgeburner
    Actually the problem here is that some people were inducted as regular not-new posters too quickly for their own good, and before the latter had a full vision of the forum, one that allowed them to understand what it was and wasn't.
    I still consider myself a newbie, and I kinda got the impression most 2015+ posters do too...
  8. Snow's Avatar
    I blame Polly for befriending me irl and enabling this!
  9. Polly's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow
    I blame Polly for befriending me irl and enabling this!
    Truly I am the source of all the evils of this world.

    Making this reference confirms me for Older Poster, right?
  10. Snow's Avatar
    Older than me!

    But yeah I see how too much too soon could be a problem, Bridge.
  11. Polly's Avatar
    I agree with Bridge that 'growing up' in 7th is... unproductive, let's put it like that.

    I myself barely even knew of the 7th during 2013 and much of 2014. I built my forum cred ( and the e-peen ) in Questions, Badass VS, the fanfic section, etc etc.
    I know I may sound like an old lady or whatever but IMO that's a much healthier and productive way towards forum membership and community than staying put in RT.

    RT is when I'm bored or tired with life and want to blow a bit of steam.
  12. Snow's Avatar
    How do I build the e-peen, Polly?
  13. Polly's Avatar
    Well, from my experience there are 2 main, sucessful ways.

    1 - get a waifu. And a controversial one, preferably. Then you can build e-peen both through discussions about Powerlevels and through discussions about the character in general, be it 'who's the best loli?' or 'who's the best king?'

    or

    2 - write tons of fanfics. Preferably about the more obscure parts of the Nasuverse so that you have to spend lots of time in Questions and similar threads digging up lore and talking to people to make sure your story fits perfectly into the established canon and lore
  14. Snow's Avatar
    I feel like I missed my chance for e-peen.

  15. Polly's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow
    I feel like I missed my chance for e-peen.

    Nah. Plenty of time for you to prove yourself, young one.

    Take care of school first, see if inspiration for writing comes back.

    If not you can always go down Fishie route and make funny comics of this funhouse.
  16. Marmadillo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgeburner
    There's an untouchable and yet very real distinction between new and old posters, which is made of a number of behaviours and experiences, ranging from deference to the elders to having conversations happen above their ears. Most of that has essentially to do with familiarity, because when you join in you aren't part of any crowd, and it's typical for all internet forums. I wouldn't even say it's an issue.
    I don't really feel much of a distinction. There are certain "cliques" who have befriended each other and talk not just in BL but elsewhere and you probably need to get over some hurdles if you want to be a part of them, but otherwise except for the very beginning I've never really felt as a newb and I haven't felt like others consider me one.
  17. Snow's Avatar
    You're right for general forum cred Bridge, but if people click individually for whatever reason you can't exactly expect the more experienced person to go 'oh no I shouldn't, they're new and need to earn their place'.
  18. Marmadillo's Avatar
    Well, the general principle is the same for any newcomer to a specific social circle imo. I think that if you take your time to listen at least as much as you talk and not express your personality in another's face right from the start, you'll do well.
  19. aldeayeah's Avatar
    You're a good poster, Polly.
  20. mAc Chaos's Avatar
    Well, after reading the blog post and comments I can't really find anything to disagree with.
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