Lilirulu

I honestly rather liked Sakura before I played Heaven's Feel.

Really? What happened in Heaven's Feel that made you like her less?

Originally Posted by Lilirulu

Really? What happened in Heaven's Feel that made you like her less?

Hm...

Honestly, I don't want to spoil too much for you (and it's a matter of opinion), but I think her character was simply poorly written in that route. There were too many revelations with very little foreshadowing from the previous routes (unlike UBW, which built off of Fate), and overall I just felt like Sakura was shoved into a box by Nasu's writing and forced to not go beyond that box, which made her suffer as a character.

But, well, you have to play it yourself and see what you think.

I agree on most counts with beam when it comes to Sakura. She is a cute enough girl next door in Fate and UBW routes but when you finally get to Heaven's Feel, she kind of becomes a bit harder to like.

Character whoring? o_O

I'd say it's a bit early to make that judgment... you don't know Sakura yet. That said, she has a good-sized and very loyal fanbase, so she's a likable enough character your opinion might remain this positive.

Maybe I should have left the note in that that I have spoiled myself on all the routes in FSN.

@ Kotonoha: Character whoring as in all the different versions of Saber there is Saber Extra, Saber Lion, Saber Lily, it was Nero that broke the camels back. Though the Saber fanatics didn't help... Or the fact that seem to shove her (and Rin) onto everything while neglecting Sakura. And I dislike when major characters get neglected just because they are not popular/disliked. So it wasn't just the character whoring but it was a major factor.

And my 'dislike' of Saber isn't really dislike of her but I don't like her as much as all the other heroines.

@Moczo: I have spoiled myself on HF and from what I have read I'm doubtful that it could make my opinion of her less. It may but It probably won't unless she acts the Sayaka from Puella Magi Madoka Magica.

Eh, spoilers only go so far. I spoiled myself on HF, too, and didn't think anything of it at the time, but really, you just have to play the route and see how much you like it.

I agree with Beam, in that some of the way Sakura is written and how she acts makes me like her less in HF despite me being spoiled too XD. The ending is nice though.

I agree that spoilers will only get me so far and that's why I know I got to finish Fate and UBW. I think I might end up disliking her route more than her though if that is the case.

Is there a point were Fate really picks up on action? What I have read so far wasn't lots of boring with pockets of interesting. I am past the fight with assassin (who is really sexy I have to say) and at the part where Shirou and Saber are training.

I'm just curious becuase it would be nice to know that I'm actually getting somewhere in fate/have a goal to get to.

Stuff doesn't go down 'till Day 9/10. After that is smooth sailing. IIRC Assassin's fight is in day 6. You have a long way to go. Fate has probably the worst pacing until the last two days.

I was about to say that disliking Saber because she's popular is a bit....petty, imo, but as you said, it's more like you like her less, instead of dislike. Although it is indeed frustrating to have a version of her on almost everything. (Although the worst one is Nero being a Saber look-alike; Nero should have had her own, original design BUT EHHHH THAT'S JUST ME.)

I do admit to disliking Saber but that's just because I find her boring >_>;

I'm probably the odd one but I spoiled myself on HF, and after playing it I enjoyed Sakura more, even though she ties with Rin for favorite heroine.

I rather liked Saber (and still do) before I played it. Each camp in the fandom is surprisingly diverse in opinions, even within it's own camp.
And Sakura is pretty darn popular.

It's an intense route, so pay attention to what's going on. Some of the stuff in HF comes across as subtle to some, but there is a ton of character development and goodies to be found, particularly where Sakura is concerned.

Although it is funny how people create the most amusing BS for things they didn't like in the route to make things look worse than they did. People actually seem to think that HF True Shirou is some puppet with no memories! So funny.

I have to agree partially with Beam here. It's hard to really say whether or not you will like Sakura before playing HF. Indeed, I didn't particularly care much for her before it (she was a nice enough girl, but I wasn't a fan), whereas afterwards I most definitely am a fan (as you might have noticed...). Although, the fact that you describe liking her "defiance" probably bodes well for HF, because that shows that side of her (her determination etc.) much more clearly.

Having said that, I agree with your statement that, if you dislike how HF handles her (which is quite possible), then that should surely make you hate the route, rather than Sakura herself. The only reason I could see for hating Sakura herself is if you blame her for what happens, and in that respect the spoilers generally give a worse impression of her than the story does, because you don't get to see the context, you just read "Sakura killed hundreds of people" and think "oh, that's awful" (admittedly, it does depend somewhat on who writes the summary...).

The abuse she's been through doesn't change the fact that she's a fundamentally kind, sweet girl, so if you like that then I see no reason to dislike Sakura after HF, unless you fundamentally misinterpret the meaning of the route and attribute blame to Sakura that she does not deserve. Disliking the way Nasu uses her in HF does not mean that you have to dislike Sakura herself.

As for Saber, I kind-of agree, although she's not really my sort of character in any case. Whilst I doubt she'd ever be my favourite, the constant Saber-whoring that Nasu and much of the fandom does does annoy me, especially when Sakura gets so totally ignored (to the point that finding decent Sakura merchandise is almost impossible, even when I was in Japan).

It really does piss me off when Rin and Saber are used at every opportunity, whilst Sakura is placed behind even Rider and Ilya in the order of precidence. For example, Rider has a figma figure, whereas Sakura does not (and I could not find a full-sized Sakura figure that wasn't Dark or blatantly sexualised anywhere, even after looking around Akihabara three times for on).

Although, what really gets at me was those stupid little cardboard cut-out things. They cost a few pounds, and they come in a pack of three.

Guess who the characters are?

Saber, Rin and... Ilya....

God, when I saw those at the anime fair, I wanted to buy the whole fucking lot just so I could burn them. But, then, that would mean giving the assholes who made them money, so....

And, of course, there was not a single piece of Sakura merchandise anywhere else in the fair (except one little comedy Kariya postcard thing, and Sakura was not exactly important in that either), whereas I'm sure I recall seeing several things involving Saber and Rin. Even when I try to actually support the industry, they seem totally uninterested in actually receiving my support, because they'd rather pander to bloody Rin and Saber fans....

THOSE BASTARDS HOW DARE THEY PRODUCE MERCHANDISE OF CHARACTERS THE FANS LIKE

BURN IT ALL

I don't object to people producing Saber, Rin, Ilya etc. merchandise. I do, however, object to them treating Sakura as a side-character rather than a fucking heroine. If they wanted to include Ilya, then why not include her and Sakura, and if they just wanted the popular characters, then why not just Saber, or Saber and Rin? There is absolutely no justification for leaving out one of the main heroines.

Originally Posted by Mike1984

I don't object to people producing Saber, Rin, Ilya etc. merchandise. I do, however, object to them treating Sakura as a side-character rather than a fucking heroine. If they wanted to include Ilya, then why not include her and Sakura, and if they just wanted the popular characters, then why not just Saber, or Saber and Rin? There is absolutely no justification for leaving out one of the main heroines.

Money.

And they didn't leave her out - as you said, there were items of her either as Dark Sakura or "sexualized" as you put it; the fact you don't like that is an entirely different matter.

But a company will always put out things that will sell more. They have whole research teams crunching numbers of this. If Illya sells and Sakura doesn't, why produce something that won't generate a profit? Just because it's "equal and fair?" That's not something the business world runs by.

Honestly, I don't care how the "business world" works, I'm just fucking sick of how Sakura constantly gets mistreated and underused. Still, if they don't want my money, that's their problem, ultimately.

And, yeah, she is "left out". There were very few Sakura figures on sale, as well as much less choice. Further, there is no figma Sakura at all (despite there being a figma Rider), and the assholes who made those stupid fucking paper things deliberately decided to include Ilya and not Sakura (and I don't even think that Ilya is all that much more popular than Sakura, either, and she's certainly less popular than Saber or Rin, plus Sakura is the natural choice due to her status as a heroine).

I'd think that the people who make the paper figures know exactly how popular their previous efforts have been and what they can sell.

Originally Posted by Mike1984

Honestly, I don't care how the "business world" works, I'm just fucking sick of how Sakura constantly gets mistreated and underused. Still, if they don't want my money, that's their problem, ultimately.

And, yeah, she is "left out". There were very few Sakura figures on sale, as well as much less choice. Further, there is no figma Sakura at all (despite there being a figma Rider), and the assholes who made those stupid fucking paper things deliberately decided to include Ilya and not Sakura (and I don't even think that Ilya is all that much more popular than Sakura, either, and she's certainly less popular than Saber or Rin, plus Sakura is the natural choice due to her status as a heroine).

All this boils down to is "They should make more Sakura figures because it's right to do so."

Sadly, that's not how business works. You make what sells. If it doesn't (or won't) sell, you don't make it, because the goal is to profit.

And simply put, Sakura is less profitable than some others. So there's less things of her.

It may not be "fair" but business is one of the most cut-throat worlds out there. Business cares about what sells; they apparently feel Sakura won't, and realistically, without knowing her character, she's basically Generic Anime Character #47; purple hair and eyes and big tits with nothing to define her. At least Rider can look distinctive/intriguing. Dark Sakura, too, can have a distinct "feel" and so that's why most things of her are of the Dark persona.

Simply put, how could they make Sakura interesting in her normal form? They'd probably have to pair her up with someone as part of a set, which is more expensive, which means less sales. All but the most diehard are a hell of a lot more hesitant to plunk down more than 20,000 yen or so.

See where I'm going?

In short, Sakura isn't interesting enough on her own to push stock. There will be a fanbase who will buy her, sure, but there will be a lot more people who will buy more interesting/dynamic characters, so to a business mind, that means those get pushed hard and the Sakura fans will have to have something that has a reasonable chance of moving - ergo, Dark Sakura.

They don't care about "what's fair," they care about "what sells." Normal Sakura doesn't.