668 - Neighbor of the Beast

Fanfiction.net is getting rid of the porn? What the fuck kind of world am I living in where fanfiction.net doesn't have crazy weird porn on it?!

Per their post on 6/4:

June 4th 2012 -- Notices:

• Please note we would like to clarify the content policy we have in place since 2002. FanFiction.Net follows the Fiction Rating system ranging from Fiction K to Fiction M. Although Fiction Ratings goes up to Fiction MA, FanFiction.Net since 2002 has not allowed Fiction MA rated content which can contain adult/explicit content on the site. FanFiction.Net only accepts content in the Fiction K through Fiction M range. Fiction M can contain adult language, themes and suggestions. Detailed descriptions of physical interaction of sexual or violent nature is considered Fiction MA and has not been allowed on the site since 2002.

Their M, of course, is what most would call a T - some swearing, but no graphic violence, and definitely no sex. Some people have been doing story runs, as stories ARE indeed being deleted - I don't have to worry about that with mine (I've got the chapters saved to disk, after all) but they're fully right in that some of these stories may be disappearing forever.

Considering with mine, some of the chapters going up are going to have some Akiha x Seo... well, yeah, there's a fair chance they'll catch it once it updates.

Super bummer.

Most of the stories and authors I follow on ff.net write M rated stories. And it mostly for like a scene of nudity here or there (without sex at all) or violence.

I'm disappointed, but I guess it can't be helped.

Lovely.

This place looks so legit.

I might have to make a profile on it someday

At least the site isn't run by BL writers. The Korean fanfiction site I visit has a weird rating enforcement where you get your story deleted for having touchy feely scenes between girls or a girl and a boy, but BL/yaoi stories that feature RAPE are ignored by their censorers.

Originally Posted by Alyeris

At least the site isn't run by BL writers. The Korean fanfiction site I visit has a weird rating enforcement where you get your story deleted for having touchy feely scenes between girls or a girl and a boy, but BL/yaoi stories that feature RAPE are ignored by their censorers.

...You're starting to scare me now, namely because of the fact that you attend a site like that.

Are Korean fanfiction sites really that few? Start your own, man, damn. Or is there some sort of social more here going on that I don't know about that makes yuri somehow worse than hardcore yaoi rape?

Originally Posted by Dark Pulse

...You're starting to scare me now, namely because of the fact that you attend a site like that.

Are Korean fanfiction sites really that few? Start your own, man, damn. Or is there some sort of social more here going on that I don't know about that makes yuri somehow worse than hardcore yaoi rape?

There's only three sites that you can get an audience on for fanfiction, because everyone uses them and no one can be bothered going to the others. There are more for original fiction, but those don't really count (though they draw a lot more people than the western equivalents do).

The reason behind the censorship issue though is that the more popular BL stories draw about 2000~20000 hits every time they update, which translates into revenue for the site, especially as some of those stories are 100~300 parts long, with the longest being 1200 parts long. Now, the fact that there are so many of those stories on there draws the audiences of girls who expect such things to be on there, and those girls then go on to write their own BL stories, and then this leads on to larger audiences... So on and so on... In other words, the site does not dare crack down on these since they are the source of about a third of their revenue.

A lot of girls with weird fetishes in Korea...

It's not that that's making me scratch my head, it's the fact that you said that the opposite gender would pretty much get wiped right out.

Those are some greedy motherfuckers, I guess. Fujoshis, all of 'em. Even the men.

I've been following this a bit (on general principle, because I detest censorship), and a bunch of people on FF.net are going to a site called http://yourfanfiction.com.

Looking at it, it seems pretty good. It's not primarily for porn, like adultfanfiction.net (so people won't be expecting porn when they read your stories), and their ToS seem pretty good (basically, they don't intend to delete stories except after repeated warnings, and if they do then they'll send a copy of the story to the author by e-mail first).

As for the purge itself, yeah, it's ridiculous. Particularly since they have categories for very adult stories, such as the Saw movies. I really don't see how you could write a Saw fanfic that wasn't horribly violent.

OK, so it's their site, and they have the "right" to limit what they post, but they are being extremely heavy-handed about it. They're deleting stories without warning, without giving any kind of useful reason (even when the issue is trivial to fix), without giving the author any chance to obtain backups and, judging from what I've seen (in the forums of one of the pro-censorship groups, no less), they're deleting stories on mere suspicion, and only checking if they've got it right if the author actually pushes them.

Further, their ToS alone are good enough reason to abandon the site. You say you can post "clean" fanfiction there, but a) if people do that, it means that there is no incentive for them to actually treat their community decently and b) you never know when you'll want to add something that isn't "clean".

Personally, I'd say people should just boycott FF.net and go somewhere else. Sure, there is an issue of getting an audience, but if enough people move elsewhere, then FF.net will die and something else will replace it. And, enough good authors seem willing to move that it's plausible it will happen. Plus, for any FSN stories, you have an "audience" on BL anyway.

Let your imagination sore my ass.

I believe it's Unleash Your Imagination.

Well, ain't that some shit.

I suggest we copypasta a bucnh of links to http://yourfanfiction.com to try and knock it up on the Google search register a bit, eh? If folks want a better alternative to FF.net, then we might as well aid this new site.

Originally Posted by Mike1984

Looking at it, it seems pretty good. It's not primarily for porn, like adultfanfiction.net (so people won't be expecting porn when they read your stories), and their ToS seem pretty good (basically, they don't intend to delete stories except after repeated warnings, and if they do then they'll send a copy of the story to the author by e-mail first).

Actually, violence also counts as "adult content" - and AFF made it a point that not every story up there has sex. (Indeed, one of the admins said they have some stories up there without sex or violence at all, and are perhaps merely controversial - e.g; racism, slavery, et cetera.) Granted, a good deal of it is sex, but well, it's an adult-focused portal, so I think that's kind of to be expected, to some degree.

That, and admittedly, that other place looks a bit... I dunno, fly-by-night? Seems very recent and like it's using a stock website design template, almost. I do wish it good luck for now, though, and if it really takes off, I might consider reposting it there.

That said, for now, after I finish OLaL, I'll likely keep anything "adult" here and on AFF. Anything squeaky-clean I can always post here and on ff.net.

Yeah, sure, AFF doesn't only have porn, but that's why most people go there. I'm not at all convinced you'd find much of an audience for non-porn work there, no matter what they might say.

And, yeah, the new place is very recent, but that doesn't stop it being much better than FF.net. Further, if everyone takes your attitude to it, then it will never "take off", and FF.net will get away with the same stuff they always get away with, simply because there's no actual alternative.

Unfortunately, there's not many better alternatives, and unless the site really takes off and gets a fairly established userbase, I'm not exactly willing to sign up for some other place either. AFF has at least that.

Though really in the future, I'll likely just end up posting them here and merely simulposting elsewhere.

Well, no, there aren't many "better alternatives" and, unless authors are willing to actually commit to a smaller site like that one, there never will be.

It's no good sitting around saying "the FF.net admins are retards" and then just going along with their bullshit because there's "no better alternatives". All that does is demonstrate to them that they can do whatever they wish, and delete stories with impuity. They couldn't care less if a few stories are lost because the author didn't have a backup and they deleted it with no warning, because they're still making money off stories like yours.

Also, whilst AFF does have a "userbase", as far as I can tell it's mostly 14-year-old girls with a fetish for Yaoi BDSM. I'm not at all convinced it's capable of coping well with the combination of pornographic fics and more normal fics like yours.

Suddenly, I feel grateful that I have yet to post any lemon content anywhere.

Only other site besides FFN, AFF and BL I post on is called MediaMiner.org, and only because I already had an account there waaaaaaay back when. There are a few I've considered joining, but, well, lazy.

Originally Posted by Mike1984

Well, no, there aren't many "better alternatives" and, unless authors are willing to actually commit to a smaller site like that one, there never will be.

It's no good sitting around saying "the FF.net admins are retards" and then just going along with their bullshit because there's "no better alternatives". All that does is demonstrate to them that they can do whatever they wish, and delete stories with impuity. They couldn't care less if a few stories are lost because the author didn't have a backup and they deleted it with no warning, because they're still making money off stories like yours.

Also, whilst AFF does have a "userbase", as far as I can tell it's mostly 14-year-old girls with a fetish for Yaoi BDSM. I'm not at all convinced it's capable of coping well with the combination of pornographic fics and more normal fics like yours.

AFF actually routinely checks for underage users, deletes, and bans them. You do know that, right? There's also plenty of heterosexual smut in their archives... I'd say it depends on the fandom. Not so much yuri, but hey, I can help change that.

Furthermore, I never said I agreed with FF.net - in fact, I strongly disagree with their belief that their site should be K-T basically - but, well, it's their site, and the TOS did say that MA fics (by their system) weren't allowed, and yet their fault is in not enforcing the restriction in some way, shape, or form (like, you know, having some sort of thing check the uploaded documents for no-no words to flag for review... not that they're smart enough to do that it seems) is why I pretty much ignored it, but just because they were lax in enforcing it (even though it's utterly sloppy and lazy for them to not care for literally a whole decade) doesn't make what I did any more right, either. If they say it's not allowed and start enforcing it, I don't exactly have recourse - I willingly violated their TOS. If they want to delete it, they're fully within their rights.

Realistically, the fic could be toned down to PG-13 levels, but that would require removing all of the sex (which is about six chapters out of 76) and definitely rewriting a few others for violence (The nightmare scenes definitely go out, some Akiha solo also has to go too). All in all I'd probably have to edit about another 4-6 chapters or so.

However, that's not what I want. I wrote it the way I wanted to write it, and since it's my story, that's my decision. Likewise, it's theirs to not accept that content, so if I willingly broke it (and I did), they have the right to remove it.

As for not signing up for another site... well, partially it's due to laziness, but it's also due to the fact that since my fan work is (mostly) going to be Nasu-related, if there's one place that's ideal to post them, these forums are it. Anywhere else is just a bonus.

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Suddenly, I feel grateful that I have yet to post any lemon content anywhere.

It's always safe here, Beam. Unless I have very, VERY good reasons, I would never delete a fanfic, and if I DID have to for some reason, it's not like I wouldn't notify the author so that they couldn't make sure it was saved (assuming they don't have a copy of it... which is kind of silly, but hey.) We count on our users to kind of police themselves. That and I don't believe in the whole "OMG MINORS BEING CORRUPTED" bullshit. By the time your average teenager is 14, they've been exposed to so much sex and violence that really, the problem is with parents who either don't educate their kids on this stuff, or else it's kids being kids, naturally being curious, and in that case, nothing's going to stop them anyway. And since I was a precocious kid myself (playing violent games like Doom by the time I was 9-10 or so), I've always felt that really, the ones who are younger and here are probably more mature than their peers.

...Granted, I'd like to keep our under-18s to a minimum. Because, after all, it's not like the Nasuverse is kid-friendly. At the same time, there's tons of ways to keep the kids off the bad sites. Check up on them. Install filters. Log their activity possibly. You can be a responsible parent without watching them like a hawk 24/7.